What's Iraq really like today?

[AnotherTraveler]

My point only is this: You just can't send troops to some country and disregard the people whose country you are in.

I agree, where we disagree is the priority issue. Obviously if you were of Iraq, the interests of Iraq would come first to you. I am of the USA, and when US troops are in Iraq, my first priority is not the public opinion of the nation we have just defeated, but the interests of the USA, while regarding the needs of the Iraq people secondarily, not dismissing them, just placing them in 2nd place in a priority list.

[Jon The Jew]

My point only is this: You just can't send troops to some country and disregard the people whose country you are in.

Point taken, which is why I clarified by saying "...but we're doing what we said we would do; fight terrorism wherever it is to make sure it's anywhere but here. I'm not saying "bow down and worship us" because we're helping you...but we're not just destroying the terrorists who try to destroy us. So it goes way beyond protecting Americans and blowing everyone else to kingdom come."

And I think you could agree. There have been accidents and there have been crimes committed by our troops, but there are in every war. It doesn't justify the actions, but it also doesn't make a war unjust.

[AnotherTraveler]

or to become a state in the USA (which was offered).

I did some checking on offer to become a state, and I could not find an offer either, so I admit that I was wrong in believing this urban legend. Sorry

[jcm]

You also have to agree that this 'priority' thing scares a lot of people around the world, and not just the terrorists. You are effectively saying, 'We will do what we want, where we want, when we want.' There is nothing most countries can do about it. I can certainly understand where you're coming from. If we had an economy and military as powerful as yours I'd be thinking the same thing. But you guys also have to understand where I'm coming from, because if you decide to do something detrimental to us, justified or not, there's not a thing we can do about it. Surely you can see how that would worry people around the world.

[jcm]

I did some checking on offer to become a state, and I could not find an offer either, so I admit that I was wrong in believing this urban legend. Sorry

That's ok. On a side note though, this topic really burns me up because some of my countrymen still want this to happen!!! People who love this country are a dying breed. That should explain my fiery temperament a little.

[AnotherTraveler]

But you guys also have to understand where I'm coming from, because if you decide to do something detrimental to us, justified or not, there's not a thing we can do about it. Surely you can see how that would worry people around the world.

Absolutely. This is very true, and we don't have a perfect track record, but just because this makes others uncomfortable doesn't mean we are going to quit going after these terrorists and the states that sponsor them.

Our posture has never been so menacing, our president has never been so willing to attack, and our ability to deploy worldwide is greater than ever, but the peaceful have nothing to fear.

In former times, a declaration of war was specific to a nation or a group of nations, but not now. This is a worldwide hunt, and there is no place where we are willing to allow them to hide again.

Afganistan was almost the end of the earth to most people, how could what was done there matter very much to us? 9/11 reminded us that after training, the world is pretty small with modern methods of travel, and suddenly we were confronted with the unthinkable.

I long for the Kingdom Of God. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

[jcm]

but the peaceful have nothing to fear.

It's never this simple is it?

[other one]

U.S.: Too Early to Tell Iraq Unit's Fate

Monday October 18, 2004 3:46 PM

AP Photo BAG109

By TINI TRAN

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The U.S. military said Monday no decision had been taken whether to discipline Army reservists who refused a supply mission last week, despite statements from their relatives that the soldiers would be discharged.

``It is too early in the process to tell if any disciplinary actions will be initiated,'' Maj. Richard Spiegel, spokesman for the 13th Corps Support Command in Taji, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

No decision will be made until the investigation is completed and recommendations are made, he said.

``I could not speculate as to why soldiers would be telling people that they are going to be discharged,'' he said.

The Army announced last week it was investigating up to 19 members of a platoon from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, South Carolina, after they refused to transport supplies from Tallil air base near Nasiriyah to Taji north of Baghdad.

On Monday, Ricky Scott of Quinton, Alabama, father of one of the soldiers involved, told CBS television's ``The Early Show'' that his son, Spc. Scott Shealey, ``is being told he is going to be processed out of the Army with a general'' discharge. Shealey said his son ``is very depressed about this.''

A general discharge is consider a disciplinary action that would lead soldiers to risk losing most, if not all veterans benefits.

However, the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command, Brig. Gen. James Chambers, told reporters in Baghdad on Sunday that two investigations were under way and that 18 soldiers were involved. He also said none was under arrest and that it was too early to tell whether the soldiers would be disciplined.

During a press conference Sunday, Chambers said the Army will study protective measures for supply vehicles and add steel plating if necessary. Some of the soldiers told family members they refused the assignment because they lacked proper equipment and protection.

Chambers said the command will ``assess armor'' on supply vehicles, which are often subject to insurgent attack, and add steel plating if necessary.

He denied claims by some of the soldiers to their families that the fuel they were to deliver was contaminated.

The mission was later carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Chambers has since ordered the 343rd to undergo a ``safety-maintenance stand down,'' during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit's vehicles are inspected, the military said.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina.

The issue of lack of appropriate equipment has been a longstanding complaint by low-level soldiers and higher U.S. command.

Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who was commander of U.S. forces in Iraq from mid-2003 till this summer, sent a letter to the Pentagon last December complaining that supplies were short and that this was adversely affecting the ability of troops to fight, The Washington Post reported Monday.

Sanchez, who has returned to an assignment in Germany, told top Army officials in the Dec. 4 letter that there was a severe lack of key parts for equipment vital to the mission and that the problem was so severe that ``I cannot continue to support sustained combat operations with rates this low,'' the newspaper said.