JTC Posted July 7, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Falling short of perfection, missing the mark. Anytime we knowingly and intentionally disobey God or fail to live in perfect accordance with His will, we are sinning. That encompasses much. Is there a difference between "sinning" and "breaking God's Law"? No Norrin, there is no difference between breaking God's laws and sinning. When you asked "what is sin?", I thought you were kidding. But maybe you weren't. If you really don't know what sin is you need to do some reading in the Bible. Start with Proverbs. Those 2 books are full of what God likes and what God hates. Then try Matthew. After that Corinthians 1 and 2. Since Paul was the apostle to gentiles, he had to explain sin more than the other apostles did. God is very concerned with how we treat each other, as well as Him. So remember these words from Jesus: Treat everyone as you would like them to treat you. If you do that you will avoid many sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Norrin Radd Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Falling short of perfection, missing the mark. Anytime we knowingly and intentionally disobey God or fail to live in perfect accordance with His will, we are sinning. That encompasses much. Is there a difference between "sinning" and "breaking God's Law"? No Norrin, there is no difference between breaking God's laws and sinning. When you asked "what is sin?", I thought you were kidding. But maybe you weren't. If you really don't know what sin is you need to do some reading in the Bible. Start with Proverbs. Those 2 books are full of what God likes and what God hates. Then try Matthew. After that Corinthians 1 and 2. Since Paul was the apostle to gentiles, he had to explain sin more than the other apostles did. God is very concerned with how we treat each other, as well as Him. So remember these words from Jesus: Treat everyone as you would like them to treat you. If you do that you will avoid many sins. I have my own idea of what sin is, but I asked in order to find out what others believe and so advance the discussion. I tend to agree with you that "sinning" and "breaking God's law" are identical, but that leads me to a conclusion rather different from yours. I have pretty well settled on the conclusion that in the New Covenant, there is only one law that comes close to being absolute and universal, and that is the law to "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself." Gods Law was given so that we might recognize that we are sinners. There's only One human being who ever measured up to Gods Law. His name is Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve were innocent prior to the fall because they had no such knowledge or nature. We do not have that luxury. Sin is anything that separates you from God. It can be willful disobedience or even ignorance in thought or deed. So sin is any breaking of God's revealed law -- whether willfully or in ignorance -- AND sin can be any of millions of other things. Interesting. So all that stuff about "My yoke is easy and My burden is light" and "we are redeemed from the curse that is the Law" and the list of rules that we've broken and the Law of commandments and ordinances being crucified and abolished -- all that is basically flatulence, because in reality, God is still standing there scowling down on us, a list of rules and standards ten times as big as Obamacare in one hand, and a "smite-ning bolt" in the other, just waiting for us to accidentally slip out of line so He can drop the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 7, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2012 Is It Okay for Christians To Sin? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagain2011 Posted July 7, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 602 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 233 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/15/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2012 In the world people don't believe in sin anymore, they don't even say that word anymore. In schools across the country they are teaching our little ones that right and wrong is a personal opinion. "Is it wrong for Christians to sin?" Something happens inside of you when you are reborn, the Holy Spirit enters you and starts to change you. This process can be very fast, or can be over the course of a few years. The Holy Spirit changes your heart and makes it so that it is very hard emotionaly to want to sin. And when you do sin you feel convicted afterwards and want forgivness. Is it okay for us to sin? Yes, but if the Spirit is really inside of you, and you long for Christ, then sinning is something you don't LONG or WANT to do anymore. But if we happen to mess up (which we do) Jesus is there with open arms to forgive us. There are some Christians that call themselves christians, but maybe don't have the Spirit inside of them yet so they keep on sinning guilt free. "you will know a good tree by the fruit it produces" a good tree produces good fruit. When I first became a Christian my eyes were opened to everything wrong I was doing, but I only felt a little bit of guilt after sinning (talking bad about my ex, swearing, lying, ect..), but after a few months I started to feel even worse to the point I would consciousely try hard to avoid doing these things. And now, almost a year later, it is very hard for me to want to sin. Even now I feel as if I am boasting, but I am trying to give an example. Sometimes I will cry because I know I am not worthy, and I doubt my salvation. When you are a christian (Holy Spirit included) you will not want to sin, but if you do, you are forgiven. I heard it said somewhere, I think on Moody radio, that when you become a Chrisitian the first thing to change is your head, then the Spirit works on your heart, then the last thing is your pocket book LOL! They said pocket book because you become selfless and want to give and help others, and give to the church. sorry for the rammbling and boasting, God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 7, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2012 Falling short of perfection, missing the mark. Anytime we knowingly and intentionally disobey God or fail to live in perfect accordance with His will, we are sinning. That encompasses much. Is there a difference between "sinning" and "breaking God's Law"? No Norrin, there is no difference between breaking God's laws and sinning. When you asked "what is sin?", I thought you were kidding. But maybe you weren't. If you really don't know what sin is you need to do some reading in the Bible. Start with Proverbs. Those 2 books are full of what God likes and what God hates. Then try Matthew. After that Corinthians 1 and 2. Since Paul was the apostle to gentiles, he had to explain sin more than the other apostles did. God is very concerned with how we treat each other, as well as Him. So remember these words from Jesus: Treat everyone as you would like them to treat you. If you do that you will avoid many sins. I have my own idea of what sin is, but I asked in order to find out what others believe and so advance the discussion. I tend to agree with you that "sinning" and "breaking God's law" are identical, but that leads me to a conclusion rather different from yours. I have pretty well settled on the conclusion that in the New Covenant, there is only one law that comes close to being absolute and universal, and that is the law to "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself." Gods Law was given so that we might recognize that we are sinners. There's only One human being who ever measured up to Gods Law. His name is Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve were innocent prior to the fall because they had no such knowledge or nature. We do not have that luxury. Sin is anything that separates you from God. It can be willful disobedience or even ignorance in thought or deed. So sin is any breaking of God's revealed law -- whether willfully or in ignorance -- AND sin can be any of millions of other things. Interesting. So all that stuff about "My yoke is easy and My burden is light" and "we are redeemed from the curse that is the Law" and the list of rules that we've broken and the Law of commandments and ordinances being crucified and abolished -- all that is basically flatulence, because in reality, God is still standing there scowling down on us, a list of rules and standards ten times as big as Obamacare in one hand, and a "smite-ning bolt" in the other, just waiting for us to accidentally slip out of line so He can drop the hammer. That's running away with the ball a might bit, don't ya think? God liberated you from the law of sin and death. However, this does not negate the Law and you do no have absolute Liberty to just go on sinning. You are in fact Free and Liberated to Love God and others by not sinning. That is not to say that you won't but it should not constitute the sum of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 7, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.19 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2012 I tend to agree with you that "sinning" and "breaking God's law" are identical, but that leads me to a conclusion rather different from yours. I have pretty well settled on the conclusion that in the New Covenant, there is only one law that comes close to being absolute and universal, and that is the law to "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself." Hi Norm. There is one law that is above the one you hold so high, and is found just prior to the one you state. Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” You see, we have to put God first, and everything else will follow. If you forget the first, the second is just worldly wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 8, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.19 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2012 Another passage to consider is what Paul stated. Romans 6:1-3 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Norrin Radd Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Falling short of perfection, missing the mark. Anytime we knowingly and intentionally disobey God or fail to live in perfect accordance with His will, we are sinning. That encompasses much. Is there a difference between "sinning" and "breaking God's Law"? No Norrin, there is no difference between breaking God's laws and sinning. When you asked "what is sin?", I thought you were kidding. But maybe you weren't. If you really don't know what sin is you need to do some reading in the Bible. Start with Proverbs. Those 2 books are full of what God likes and what God hates. Then try Matthew. After that Corinthians 1 and 2. Since Paul was the apostle to gentiles, he had to explain sin more than the other apostles did. God is very concerned with how we treat each other, as well as Him. So remember these words from Jesus: Treat everyone as you would like them to treat you. If you do that you will avoid many sins. I have my own idea of what sin is, but I asked in order to find out what others believe and so advance the discussion. I tend to agree with you that "sinning" and "breaking God's law" are identical, but that leads me to a conclusion rather different from yours. I have pretty well settled on the conclusion that in the New Covenant, there is only one law that comes close to being absolute and universal, and that is the law to "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself." Gods Law was given so that we might recognize that we are sinners. There's only One human being who ever measured up to Gods Law. His name is Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve were innocent prior to the fall because they had no such knowledge or nature. We do not have that luxury. Sin is anything that separates you from God. It can be willful disobedience or even ignorance in thought or deed. So sin is any breaking of God's revealed law -- whether willfully or in ignorance -- AND sin can be any of millions of other things. Interesting. So all that stuff about "My yoke is easy and My burden is light" and "we are redeemed from the curse that is the Law" and the list of rules that we've broken and the Law of commandments and ordinances being crucified and abolished -- all that is basically flatulence, because in reality, God is still standing there scowling down on us, a list of rules and standards ten times as big as Obamacare in one hand, and a "smite-ning bolt" in the other, just waiting for us to accidentally slip out of line so He can drop the hammer. That's running away with the ball a might bit, don't ya think? God liberated you from the law of sin and death. However, this does not negate the Law So Paul was wrong about us no longer being under the Law, being free from the curse that is the Law because it was hanged on the "tree" with Christ (Gal. 3), the list of all the decrees we've broken was crucified (Col. 2), the entire Law of commandments and ordinances was abolished in Christ's death? Those make it sound pretty much "negated" to me. and you do no have absolute Liberty to just go on sinning. You are in fact Free and Liberated to Love God and others by not sinning. That is not to say that you won't but it should not constitute the sum of your life. I didn't say anyone has liberty to sin at will. I am saying the list of what constitutes "sin" is much smaller and less complicated than what legalists would have us believe. Also, when you say, "love God and others by not sinning," I believe you may have some things out of order. First of all, Matthew twice quotes Jesus as saying God "desire(s) mercy, not sacrifice." We love God BY loving others. Secondly, we don't "love others" by not sinning; we show love to others, and that IN AND OF ITSELF is "not sinning." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Norrin Radd Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I tend to agree with you that "sinning" and "breaking God's law" are identical, but that leads me to a conclusion rather different from yours. I have pretty well settled on the conclusion that in the New Covenant, there is only one law that comes close to being absolute and universal, and that is the law to "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself." Hi Norm. Hi Cliff. There is one law that is above the one you hold so high, and is found just prior to the one you state. Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” You see, we have to put God first, and everything else will follow. If you forget the first, the second is just worldly wisdom. Are you positive about that? Mark's version of that saying (ch. 12) does indeed place the "love your neighbor" commandment as second in rank. The one you cite -- Matt. -- actually says the second is "like" the first, where the word "like" can just as well mean "the SAME as." Luke (10:27) places the saying in a different context, and directly combines the two into ONE commandment. That makes sense, since Luke was the friend and ministry partner of Paul. In Rom. 13, Paul cites that "love your neighbor" commandment 3 times, and explicitly says obeying that one commandment fulfills the ENTIRE Law. He says the same thing in Gal. 5. James talks much about the importance of obedience and the importance of "works" to demonstrate true faith; but the context shows that the "works" he intends are acts of love and mercy, and in fact he also explicitly says that fulfilling the "royal" law of "love your neighbor," if you are truly doing so, is "doing well." John in his epistles leans slightly in your direction when he writes about "love" and "commandments," but in quoting Jesus in ch. 13-14 of his Gospel, it seems pretty clear that "love one another" encompasses all other commandments and is therefore sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerJack Posted July 8, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) You're all stuck on the law. Let's look at it this way. If G-d tells you to go witness to your friend, and you delay or don't do it, is that a sin? Delayed obedience is disobedience. If you're not where G-d wants you, you're in sin. Edited July 8, 2012 by TrackerJack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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