Catholics and Christians are to pray for unity

[ayin jade]

For example, many have a misconception of Catholics worshipping Mary. We never worship Mary. We worship only God. And if anyone bothered to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that is also stated in there. The Catechism consist of all the teaching doctrines of the Catholic Church. It is stated in the Catechism that worship belongs to God alone, and that Mary and the saints are to be given only veneration. Veneration is similar to the kind of honor that you give to Martin Luther King Jr. You honor his memory and even have a holiday for him.

We do not venerate king jr in remotely the same way mary is "venerated" by many catholics. I do not light candles to king jr nor do I pray to him. Most times I do not even think about him until the holiday and then its only because we do not get mail that day. What you call veneration of mary to me is wrong in so many ways and bordering on blasphemy if not outright crossing into it that I cannot have unity in that. I live in an area where mary is given far more worship than Jesus is, at least so it seems by the amount of our lady of guadalupe statues, window stickers etc one sees around here.

I can however rejoice with brothers and sisters who believe in Jesus whether they are catholic or protestant.

[~candice~]

It is unfortunate that it is not often recognised that catholics are not a homogeneous group... some of them have some serious doctrinal issues, and yet, some of them have devotion to Christ that puts me to shame. I've seen both. I've been to Ireland and seen Mary hanging on a cross. I've seen Catholics stop in public and grab the hand of a homeless man when I walked straight past him.

So yes, there are some Catholics that I can join together with and find enough in common to unite before Christ. The irony is, that in a thread asking for unity, it has been turned into division.

[Guest shiloh357]

It's not that they think you are a liar. It is that we have differnt ways of defining worship, evidently. We may show respect and honor to people like MLK Jr, but we don't sing to him (Ave Maria, Salve Regina) Calling Mary the "Mother of God (which she isn't) and to refer to her as the "Queen of Heaven" go beyond simply honoring her or showing respect. It crosses the line into worship. Just because you dont' call it worship, doesn't mean that it isn't.

Salve Regina:

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope.

To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs,

mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.

Turn then, most gracious advocate,thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile,

show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

Pray for us O holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

That is more than merely honor or respecting.

[Guest shiloh357]

_{Really? Well, this is what the Holy Bible says:}

_{Romans 13:7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.}

_{The Holy Bible says that we can give respect and honor (veneration) to others, so why should I follow you?}

_{That is not what Paul is talking about and I think you know that. Paul is talking showing basic respect. He is not referncing veneration. Please be a bit more reasonable. Any one can grab a verse from there or there and make the Bible say anything they want it to say.}

[ncn]

The first thing that jumps to mind is the intercession of pray through saints.

While the RCC does say that there is no "Worship of Mary " we know that this is not true.

The very recital of the rosary in their daily lives or at Lourdes, Fatima and the list goes on; is proof that prayers are offered to Mary and requests of intercession are asked for.

In Fact, the very Holy See encourages this. What RCC church does not have a program to take pilgrims to these sites?.

Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Mary has no authority in this area. And that's biblical.

1 Timothy 2:5 "… For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, one man, Jesus Christ."

Catholicism orders members to confess their sins to a man, but the Bible reveals that those who have been born into God's family can go straight to God's throne to receive forgiveness for their sins:

I personally believe that many Catholics have a devotion to Christ, but the wide valley that divides us on the doctrinal side is so vast.

[firestormx]

John 13:35

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

1 Corinthians 13

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

⁸ Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. ⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part, ¹⁰ but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. ¹¹ When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. ¹² For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

¹³ And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

True unity in Christ has to start with the love of GOD. Until we can Love each other and our eniemies just as Christ loved us, there will never be unity. May the Most high Father and Yahshua Bless and keep you all

Edited August 4, 2012 by firestormx

[Guest man]

I wonder how is it that Christians can see into the hearts of Catholics? I thought only God can see into a person's heart and know what they actually worship.

It's your actions that people are looking at, not the contents of your heart. Your actions are telling those who see you that it's acceptable to kneel, bow and pray to lifeless images. Those that are lost and don't understand get sucked into a world of idolatry because of what they visually see you doing.

Catholics aren't the only ones who do this. Non-catholics have their own religious icons. The practice of showing any kind of recognition to these images is strictly forbidden by the Word of God.

[ayin jade]

The first thing that jumps to mind is the intercession of pray through saints.

While the RCC does say that there is no "Worship of Mary " we know that this is not true.

Yep. You see......another one. I wonder how is it that Christians can see into the hearts of Catholics? I thought only God can see into a person's heart and know what they actually worship. In the Bible, God told Moses to build a statue of a bronze serpent and that those who look upon it will be healed. That bronzie serpent was never a problem until God looked into their hearts, and He saw that they were worshipping it. So, God had it destroyed. So, I wonder how Christians can do what God can do....see into the heart of another person.

They were not told to pray or light candles to a statue or to have feast days etc. That whole passage in the bible is also a type depiction of Jesus on the cross. A foreshadowing of a future event. Even Jesus references it in John 3.

[ayin jade]

Don't you know what Christians in America have done to the Native Americans. While the Catholics were subjugating Native Americans in South America, the Protestant Christians were doing the same to the Native Americans in the United States.

The US has a bad history with native americans. No question there. Why do you assume it was Christians or protestant Christians who were organized and doing this in the name of God?

Although I was not going to bring this up, the catholic church has a terrible track record among native americans. The indians of california for instance have been almost wiped out culturally because of it, forced as slaves and kept so confined at missions that they were deciminated by disease. This was spanish occupation not during the time of the us government of california. I think we can say that much harm was done by everyone regarding native americans.

Instead of going on about our differences, why not come together as brothers and sisters in Christ.

[~candice~]

Folks, just a reminder that we do not really host catholic apologetics on this forum. Catholics are more than welcomed, but catholic apologetics are not. I am happy for an encouragement to be issued for us all to unite and pray for unity, but please do not let the discussion drift into catholic apologetics. It has rarely been edifying in the past.