the chip?

[apothanein kerdos]

Nothing in and of itself is the "Mark of the Beast'. The Mark spoken of in revelation is a lifestyle and an actual print. Don't forget, it's going to be in people's forheads too, not just their hands....in other words, there's nothing wrong with getting this chip.

First you say nothing in itself is the mark of the beast.

Then you say the mark of the beast is a "lifestyle"

Then you advise Him to receive the chip?

I stand by what i said.

Revelation 11

9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

All Praise the Ancient Of Days

Okay, if you want to get technical.

No inanimate object in and of itself can be the mark of the beast. Standing alone it cannot be anything. It has to have a purpose and an intent behind it. If the chip, the inanimate object, has the intent behind it to act as a credit card, then it is a credit card and not the mark of the beast. If the intent behind it is to be an object created by the anti-christ to identify his followers then yes, it's the mark of the beast.

As for me saying a lifestyle is the mark of the beast, it is. A lifestyle is not an inanimate object, it is the way we live. The lifestyle of the anti-christ (or mark of the beast) is one that denies Christ, thus it is a lifestlye.

As for your third point, again, can you prove that the inanimate chip in and of itself, by itself, is the mark of the beast and is wrong to get?

[Adstar]

No inanimate object in and of itself can be the mark of the beast.

An inaminate object can itself be the mark of the beast.

Standing alone it cannot be anything. It has to have a purpose and an intent behind it.

It does have a pourpose to contol and record all ecomomic activity engaged in by the entire population.

If the chip, the inanimate object, has the intent behind it to act as a credit card, then it is a credit card and not the mark of the beast. If the intent behind it is to be an object created by the anti-christ to identify his followers then yes, it's the mark of the beast.

Can it not perform both functions? if not why not?

As for me saying a lifestyle is the mark of the beast, it is.

Is it? Or is it a carrot for thoes who worship the beast and a stick to those that do not?

A lifestyle is not an inanimate object, it is the way we live. The lifestyle of the anti-christ (or mark of the beast) is one that denies Christ, thus it is a lifestlye.

Thoes that reject Jesus will worship the beast and recieve the mark, that does not make the mark a lifestyle at all.

Maybe someone will be decieved in to believing that the Anti-christ is the Messiah and maybe they will worship Him and then they may come to the point of recieving the Mark and at the last moment remember this warning and refuse to recieve it. maybe they will be forgiven maybe they will be saved.

As for proof. time will tell. You are convinced that it is not the chip or a similar physical object, so be it. i will agree to disagree and leave it at that. everyone must come to their own decision on this.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[apothanein kerdos]

An inaminate object can itself be the mark of the beast.

No it can't. My TV cannot be the mark of the beast in and of itself. This is like people who equate each and every tattoo to being the mark of the beast (which, btw, a Tattoo makes more sense seeing as how the Mark is a visible mark that is "on" the skin). Nothing in and of itself is the mark. It isn't until it has the numbers 666 on there and is meant to be the Mark of the Beast that it becomes the mark of the beast.

It does have a pourpose to contol and record all ecomomic activity engaged in by the entire population.

You confuse purpose with possibility. Everything has a possibility for evil, yet this doesn't make all things evil. If it did then you would need to get off of the internet. The chip's purpose as of now is to record medical data and in some nations work as a credit card. As for record all economic activity, we already do that with credit cards, checks, debit cards, and even cash. We can simply look to the sales being done at a register to see that...we don't need an implanted chip.

Can it not perform both functions? if not why not?

It can perform both functions, yet this is a moot point. Just because it can does not make it evil. Again I go back to the internet. It can be used for both good and bad, it all depends on the intent you put behind it. This chip can be used for both good and bad, it all depends on the intent put behind it.

Is it? Or is it a carrot for thoes who worship the beast and a stick to those that do not?

I have no idea what you're trying to say with that.

Thoes that reject Jesus will worship the beast and recieve the mark, that does not make the mark a lifestyle at all.

The first part of your sentence negates the second part. A person who takes the mark of the beast is living a lifestyle consistant to it, one that denies Christ. The only way you can really accept the Mark is if you're living a lifestyle consistent with it.

Maybe someone will be decieved in to believing that the Anti-christ is the Messiah and maybe they will worship Him and then they may come to the point of recieving the Mark and at the last moment remember this warning and refuse to recieve it. maybe they will be forgiven maybe they will be saved.

Why warn them about the future when the future is not certain? Why not warn them about the now and about how Christ died for them now?

[irishcowboy]

if you are not living for Christ,

you are living for satan,

there is no middle ground........... either for or against..... a person that says they are not against Christ, but do things their own way, are in all actuallity, against Christ...... they may believe that He is the Lord and Savior, but if they have not accepted Him as their Lord and Savior, that is the same as saying satan rules....

if a person takes the mark, they are not trusting in the Lord, and not living for the Lord, for we are told not to take it or else.......... if you take it, you lose.........

mike

[apothanein kerdos]

if you are not living for Christ,

you are living for satan,

there is no middle ground........... either for or against..... a person that says they are not against Christ, but do things their own way, are in all actuallity, against Christ...... they may believe that He is the Lord and Savior, but if they have not accepted Him as their Lord and Savior, that is the same as saying satan rules....

if a person takes the mark, they are not trusting in the Lord, and not living for the Lord, for we are told not to take it or else.......... if you take it, you lose.........

mike

That isn't the debate though. The debate is if this chip is the mark in and of itself or if it isn't. I'm saying that it isn't the mark by itself but that the intent has to come behind it.

This is the danger in eschatology, is so many people develope their theology and lifestyle practices about what they suppose will occur in the end times. Let us not forget, there was once a group of people who looked at prophecy, were absolutely certain they were right, and when someone challenged them on it and told them they were wrong, they killed Him. Those people were the pharisees. They thought they understood what the messiah would be based upon Biblical prophecy, as it turned out, they were dead wrong.

[J.C.]

Revelation 13:17

and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Hmmmm... The verichip keeps up with your bank accounts and can be scaned... Now I am not say the verichip is the mark... yet. However, I am saying that I will not be getting the verichip put into my flesh, nor anything remotely close to it.

On a side note, if this is not the "mark", it is certainly the technology.

[other one]

All the verichip is, is an electronic id badge that transmits for short distances your id. It in itself does not keep up with anything but your id. For the other stuff you would have to access some database that is in the process of being built.

I would have to agree with Super Jew that the chip itself is not the mark of the beast. I would disagree that it is a lifestyle. It will be a marker that you have taken the Luciferian oath and worshiped the beast.

This mark could be most anything that would identify you as a worshiper of the evil one, maybe the chip.... maybe just a tatooo.... maybe dunk your hand or head in die of some color to show you are among them.

I also do not agree with the cuttingedge being a bad or dangerous place to go. A little conspiracy won't hurt you and you just might be able to make heads or tails of what is going on in this world today. It is very interesting to watch.

He's coming so don't sweat it. Those in the first century didn't seem to have much trouble dying for Him, and I doubt we will either if it is our lot to do so.

Catsmeow and myself are in agreement with the head thing, and as I have said many times...... beats lung cancer any day.

[irishcowboy]

the chip is now being offered for free,

there are vehicles being set up to go from community to community for installation,

walmart is setting up to use it for purchasing,

the military wants to install it in every member of the armed forces ( manditory, like they were the first to make it manditory to have direct deposit or not get paid),

kerry has said we have the technology to protect our boarders from illegal immigrents ( chip? low level satty?? )

hospitals like the idea for medical use,

the chip can be located with in two feet of where the GPS says it is,

everything about it says it is a really wonderful tool,

MARK = anything from a prick of the skin ( from a needle ) to a full blown taatoo ( many pricks from a needle )

the reason for the location being the hand or forhead, is the hand and the head are the two places that most heat is generated and that is what keeps the battery alive and charged....

the military use, sounds great, teh generals can control and monitor the battle from the rear, and know where each and every member is at a given moment, how they are doing, if they are injured/wounded, captured, or even killed ( depending on body heat and such....

the chip can be used for monitoring pulse, resp, body temp ( not sure about blood preasure yet......

oh yea, when does it say that it will be announced by anyone that it is "the mark of the beast"?

when do we say that it is? when do we say to people DONT TAKE IT ! ! ! !

when are we goingto open our eyes.....

i have already heard people telling others they ought to go ahead and get it.... encouraging them to take this chip........yuck......

if a person encourages another to take the mark of the beast, they will have to answer for that as well.......

it is better that a person have a mill stone tied about his neck ......... then to harm one of His little ones..... ( we are all his little ones ) .........

if you take it, enjoy it for a season...... for that is all you will have.....

mike