Is The Soul Mortal or Immortal?

[JTC]

Apparently all of you think the soul is immortal and will live forever? I don't, and I have also read the Bible, and much of it more than once. I think exactly what the soul and spirit are, is not well defined in the Bible. This is unfortunate. I've heard many explanations. I came to agree that the soul is what we might call the personality. It's who I am. It's me, John and it's learned what I know. The spirit is the raw life force within me. The spirit is the spark of God. The spirit in me makes this body alive, and it has the soul of John attached to it. The spirit can never die. If my soul dies the spirit returns to God, from whence it came. I know Jesus once told the people to not fear men who can only kill the body, but to fear Him who can destroy the body and soul. I think Jesus meant God the Father. That's one place I get the idea the soul is mortal. Jesus also talked about giving the gift of eternal life. Jesus talked about what we need to do to gain that eternal life. In the 7 letters to the 7 churches in Revelation, He made it clear it's Him Jesus who gives the gift of eternal life, and He said He gives it to those of us who overcome. So all this is where I come to the conclusions that the soul is mortal, and will be destroyed, unless we receive the gift of eternal life from Our Lord. I think Jesus said our souls will be destroyed in hell's fire. Not sure of that. Either way, unless Jesus finds us worthy of eternal life, any other alternative, is extremely undesirable.

So this is how I came to my conclusion. Since you all seem to disagree with me, tell me how you came to your conclusions?

[Fez]

How can we all "disagree" with you when no one has yet answered your post?

Trying to pick a fight?

[gdemoss]

Hi John,

I have had issues with this as well and have learned a bit this week about it when I confessed that I did not understand what happens after death. God has a way of helping me with that I confess that I do not know.

Focusing on this scripture helped a bit:

Hbr 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The body returns to the earth as we all know, I don't think I need to provide scriptural support for that one.

The soul is the tricky part of the equation. While death is separation and the first death is the separation from the body, we know that the second death is the 'lake of fire' and that separation will be eternal for any soul sent there. Eternal death. Immoral implies that the soul cannot die and we all know that only God hath immortality according to the scriptures. He gives eternal life to those that obey him.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[JTC]

Fez, no I'm not trying to pick a fight, but so far every time I said the soul is mortal everyone has disagreed with me. That's all.

Gary, I think you're agreeing with me. When you said immoral above, I think is was a typo and you meant immortal, yes?

The way I understand it, satan and his fallen angels will exist forever in hell. After all, it was created for them, not us. But if a totally unjust human soul is tossed into hell fire it will be destroyed. Never to exist again. Only the souls that Jesus grants eternal life to will become immortal. And at that time we will also be given immortal bodies. Possibly the same kind Jesus has right now.

So are you agreeing with me?

[OneLight]

Fez, no I'm not trying to pick a fight, but so far every time I said the soul is mortal everyone has disagreed with me. That's all.

Gary, I think you're agreeing with me. When you said immoral above, I think is was a typo and you meant immortal, yes?

The way I understand it, satan and his fallen angels will exist forever in hell. After all, it was created for them, not us. But if a totally unjust human soul is tossed into hell fire it will be destroyed. Never to exist again. Only the souls that Jesus grants eternal life to will become immortal. And at that time we will also be given immortal bodies. Possibly the same kind Jesus has right now.

So are you agreeing with me?

This could be that what one calls a soul, another calls the spirit. Unless people have the same understanding of terminology, there will be disagreements.

[JTC]

Fez, no I'm not trying to pick a fight, but so far every time I said the soul is mortal everyone has disagreed with me. That's all.

Gary, I think you're agreeing with me. When you said immoral above, I think is was a typo and you meant immortal, yes?

The way I understand it, satan and his fallen angels will exist forever in hell. After all, it was created for them, not us. But if a totally unjust human soul is tossed into hell fire it will be destroyed. Never to exist again. Only the souls that Jesus grants eternal life to will become immortal. And at that time we will also be given immortal bodies. Possibly the same kind Jesus has right now.

So are you agreeing with me?

This could be that what one calls a soul, another calls the spirit. Unless people have the same understanding of terminology, there will be disagreements.

I explained that the spirit is the raw like force that makes the body alive, and allows the soul to exist too. If the soul is destroyed by God, who is the only one who can destroy it, the spirit returns to God, from when it came. I know that's in the OT and maybe in more place than one.

[gdemoss]

Fez, no I'm not trying to pick a fight, but so far every time I said the soul is mortal everyone has disagreed with me. That's all.

Gary, I think you're agreeing with me. When you said immoral above, I think is was a typo and you meant immortal, yes?

The way I understand it, satan and his fallen angels will exist forever in hell. After all, it was created for them, not us. But if a totally unjust human soul is tossed into hell fire it will be destroyed. Never to exist again. Only the souls that Jesus grants eternal life to will become immortal. And at that time we will also be given immortal bodies. Possibly the same kind Jesus has right now.

So are you agreeing with me?

Gotta love those typos eh? I agree with you to a point. I do not believe in the annihilation doctrine. The soul that finds itself in hell and the lake of fire will suffer for eternity never being destroyed. Mark 9 doesn't allow for an end to the suffering.

Gary

[OneLight]

Fez, no I'm not trying to pick a fight, but so far every time I said the soul is mortal everyone has disagreed with me. That's all.

Gary, I think you're agreeing with me. When you said immoral above, I think is was a typo and you meant immortal, yes?

The way I understand it, satan and his fallen angels will exist forever in hell. After all, it was created for them, not us. But if a totally unjust human soul is tossed into hell fire it will be destroyed. Never to exist again. Only the souls that Jesus grants eternal life to will become immortal. And at that time we will also be given immortal bodies. Possibly the same kind Jesus has right now.

So are you agreeing with me?

This could be that what one calls a soul, another calls the spirit. Unless people have the same understanding of terminology, there will be disagreements.

I explained that the spirit is the raw like force that makes the body alive, and allows the soul to exist too. If the soul is destroyed by God, who is the only one who can destroy it, the spirit returns to God, from when it came. I know that's in the OT and maybe in more place than one.

Do you believe that the soul is always destroyed upon death of the body?

[JTC]

Hey OneLight,

No, I don't believe the soul dies with the body. Only God can destroy the soul.

I hope you all realize that I'm not a scoffer, and I'm not saying I definitely know these things for a fact. I'm very serious here. I've had to stay away from churches for the reasons I have said else where, and even more I have yet to say. But I didn't stay away from God nor His word. In fact, being so alone as I am, makes me think and talk to God a great deal. But being so alone also causes me to get lost in my own head. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean I'm wrong, nor right. I just hope you all know I'm serious.

Gary, I just read Mark 9. I assume you mean the quote from Isaiah that says:

"the worms that eat them do not die,

and the fire is not quenched" ?

That is a troubling scripture, I admit. Possibly that refers to the 1st death? Or maybe it means the worms (whatever they are) that destroy the wicked souls, it's the worms that don't die, and the fires never go out? Even so, I think that verse is symbolic.

I didn't come to this conclusion that our souls are mortal easily. It took well over a decade. There was much wrestling with it in my mind. And I hate coming to conclusions that separate me from other Christians. But I must be true to God.

Whether or not the soul is mortal or not, doesn't change what we need to do to gain eternal life. It's just a detail of understanding, and some people need to know these things. I think I may have gotten past that. So I'm not sure why I'm even saying all this.

I have a related question, but I think I should make it into a separate thread. It may cause quite a commotion.

So I still don't see scriptural proof that our souls are immortal. Rather I see that they will die, unless Jesus gives them the gift of eternal life. And I don't think Jesus gives this gift as easily as most Christians think He does. But 1 step at a time.

[gdemoss]

Eternal life that is given is knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The word of God reveals to us who God is as he declares to us his name. Eternal life is to be conformed to the image of God, the express image of his person instead of being contrary to God and his being. Eternal life is having the Spirit of God in us and guiding us into all truth. Eternal life is becoming love as God is love. Eternal life is becoming God's friend instead of his enemy as friend is defined by scripture. Jesus said if you do whatever I command of you then you are my friends. And in another place if they have kept my word they will keep yours also. Therefore if one is a friend of God they are also friends in this life to the others who are Gods friends and will keep each others commands, whose commands would never be grievous to one another because the love and cherish each other not wanting to put a yoke upon any.

In the Love of God,

Gary