Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[OneLight]

Yes, it is necessary. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He is the role model and example we should follow because He is the Way to salvation. Christ had Himself baptized despite the fact that He did not need it; therefore, we should follow Him.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Should we ? Absolutely, I think everyone should..... Do you have to in order to be saved ? No...

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I don't think so. While it is true that Christ came down to bring us redemption does not mean that we can now follow our own will and do whatever we want. If we did that, we would just be going back to the same thing that Adam and Eve did when they disobeyed God. Now that Christ gave us redemption, we still have to follow certain things. If we can't obey those simple things such as "baptism" then how can we be obedient to Christ? Afterall, baptism was ordered by God. It was never ordered by man.

I have a question (close your eyes gdemoss). If a person is on their death bed, just about to pass, and they accept Jesus as their Savior, then dies without being baptized, are they saved?

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient.

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who makes that judgement. God has always been the one who decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I never made that decision.

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient?? When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their disobedience got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Their disobedience did not save them. Do you think that it's okay to disobey God? Don't you think we should obey the things ordered by God? Afterall, to "believe" is "to obey." If a person truly believes in God, that person would obey God.

I asked you because of your post, and to make you think a bit. So, thinking back to when you were first saved, were you always obedient? Are you always obedient now? If not, are you in and out of salvation according to obeying or not?

The question was also to show that not everyone has time to be baptized after they are saved, and in these cases, I believe they will return to the Lord, even if they are not baptized. I agree that God knows the heart of a person, not us, yet, this discussion is about someone being saved if they are not baptized.

I noticed you did not reply to my first post to you. Did you miss it?

My brother, I am a Catholic. Catholics don't believe in the "I am saved once and for all" thing. We believe that we are in the process of being saved. We understand that salvation can be lost. We also believe that salvation comes ONLY from God; and therefore, ONLY He makes the decision of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. Afterall, He can have mercy on whomever He wants to have mercy.

So, are you saying that if someone accepts Christ and dies before being baptized, they are not fulfilling Mark 16:16, therefore, being disobedient and not having salvation? OR are you reading into scripture something that is not there? This is basically my reason for replying to your post.

[OneLight]

Yes, it is necessary. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He is the role model and example we should follow because He is the Way to salvation. Christ had Himself baptized despite the fact that He did not need it; therefore, we should follow Him.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Should we ? Absolutely, I think everyone should..... Do you have to in order to be saved ? No...

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I don't think so. While it is true that Christ came down to bring us redemption does not mean that we can now follow our own will and do whatever we want. If we did that, we would just be going back to the same thing that Adam and Eve did when they disobeyed God. Now that Christ gave us redemption, we still have to follow certain things. If we can't obey those simple things such as "baptism" then how can we be obedient to Christ? Afterall, baptism was ordered by God. It was never ordered by man.

I have a question (close your eyes gdemoss). If a person is on their death bed, just about to pass, and they accept Jesus as their Savior, then dies without being baptized, are they saved?

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient.

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who makes that judgement. God has always been the one who decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I never made that decision.

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient?? When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their disobedience got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Their disobedience did not save them. Do you think that it's okay to disobey God? Don't you think we should obey the things ordered by God? Afterall, to "believe" is "to obey." If a person truly believes in God, that person would obey God.

I asked you because of your post, and to make you think a bit. So, thinking back to when you were first saved, were you always obedient? Are you always obedient now? If not, are you in and out of salvation according to obeying or not?

The question was also to show that not everyone has time to be baptized after they are saved, and in these cases, I believe they will return to the Lord, even if they are not baptized. I agree that God knows the heart of a person, not us, yet, this discussion is about someone being saved if they are not baptized.

I noticed you did not reply to my first post to you. Did you miss it?

My brother, I am a Catholic. Catholics don't believe in the "I am saved once and for all" thing. We believe that we are in the process of being saved. We understand that salvation can be lost. We also believe that salvation comes ONLY from God; and therefore, ONLY He makes the decision of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. Afterall, He can have mercy on whomever He wants to have mercy.

So, are you saying that if someone accepts Christ and dies before being baptized, they are not fulfilling Mark 16:16, therefore, being disobedient and not having salvation? OR are you reading into scripture something that is not there? This is basically my reason for replying to your post.

I am saying that it is up to God to decide to give salvation or not to those who are not baptized. It's His call. The Holy Bible says that God can have mercy on whomever He wants. So, Catholics pray for God's mercy for all mankind rather than for God's judgement. The fact that God Himself instituted the Sacrament of Baptism and that Christ even underwent baptism reveals the necessity of baptism for those who already believe in Him.

Mark 16:16 does not make baptism a requirement for salvation, but a result of being saved. God has already given salvation to those who accept Christ. Salvation is not a result of being baptized, but being baptized is the result of being saved. Your putting the cart before the horse.

Edited the phrase at the end of my post. Someone kindly pointed out that I worded this wrong. Thanks Ranae!

[OneLight]

The Scripture in the Gospel of John when Jesus said, "unless you are born of water and spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God." The Church interprets that scripture as baptism. Christ, who did not need to be baptize was baptized in the Jordan River with "water and spirit." That is the baptism that we follow.....the baptism of Christ.

When we are born into this world, we are born of water, if you consider the beginning of birth. To be born of the Spirit, one must accept Christ and become a new creation by the means of the Holy Spirit.

[His_disciple3]

Yes Baptism is necessary for salvation, but most bank on the wrong baptism. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, But scriptures says that we are ALL baptised in the same Spirit, this baptism is the One that is necessary for salvation, some sprinkle some inmerge. But this is not the baptism for salvation, John baptised with Water, but preached that there was one coming after him, that would baptize with Spirit and fire, Jesus said that John merely baptised water, but that He would soon baptize with Spirit and fire, and Paul in acts 19 preached that the spiritual baptism was the one that was necessary, and even preached to some that they needed the Spiritual Baptism even after they had received the baptism of john!

[firestormx]

Yes Baptism is necessary for salvation, but most bank on the wrong baptism. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, But scriptures says that we are ALL baptised in the same Spirit, this baptism is the One that is necessary for salvation, some sprinkle some inmerge. But this is not the baptism for salvation, John baptised with Water, but preached that there was one coming after him, that would baptize with Spirit and fire, Jesus said that John merely baptised water, but that He would soon baptize with Spirit and fire, and Paul in acts 19 preached that the spiritual baptism was the one that was necessary, and even preached to some that they needed the Spiritual Baptism even after they had received the baptism of john!

I like the way you put this, I have not thought of it like that before.

[Sevenseas]

We had one of those discussions not too long ago....here is the link

if you want to see where that one went

Well I looked high and low for a thread before I started this one. Of course I only looked under Doctinal issues (where it should have been). Why it is under General Discussion I have no idea.

LOL! No problem in starting a new one I don't imagine and I would think that Doctrinal would be a good place to start it too!

Just wanted to give you a heads up re the places it went last time

Let me add, not necessary for salvation but by commandment, yes...I was baptized as an infant (Lutheran)

but my folks switched churches and were saved and I was saved at five and baptized, I think, I believe...hmmmm...at 14.

[Rainy]

Yes, it is necessary. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He is the role model and example we should follow because He is the Way to salvation. Christ had Himself baptized despite the fact that He did not need it; therefore, we should follow Him.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Should we ? Absolutely, I think everyone should..... Do you have to in order to be saved ? No...

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I don't think so. While it is true that Christ came down to bring us redemption does not mean that we can now follow our own will and do whatever we want. If we did that, we would just be going back to the same thing that Adam and Eve did when they disobeyed God. Now that Christ gave us redemption, we still have to follow certain things. If we can't obey those simple things such as "baptism" then how can we be obedient to Christ? Afterall, baptism was ordered by God. It was never ordered by man.

I have a question (close your eyes gdemoss). If a person is on their death bed, just about to pass, and they accept Jesus as their Savior, then dies without being baptized, are they saved?

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient.

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who makes that judgement. God has always been the one who decides who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I never made that decision.

There is a difference between being saved and being obedient?? When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their disobedience got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Their disobedience did not save them. Do you think that it's okay to disobey God? Don't you think we should obey the things ordered by God? Afterall, to "believe" is "to obey." If a person truly believes in God, that person would obey God.

I asked you because of your post, and to make you think a bit. So, thinking back to when you were first saved, were you always obedient? Are you always obedient now? If not, are you in and out of salvation according to obeying or not?

The question was also to show that not everyone has time to be baptized after they are saved, and in these cases, I believe they will return to the Lord, even if they are not baptized. I agree that God knows the heart of a person, not us, yet, this discussion is about someone being saved if they are not baptized.

I noticed you did not reply to my first post to you. Did you miss it?

My brother, I am a Catholic. Catholics don't believe in the "I am saved once and for all" thing. We believe that we are in the process of being saved. We understand that salvation can be lost. We also believe that salvation comes ONLY from God; and therefore, ONLY He makes the decision of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. Afterall, He can have mercy on whomever He wants to have mercy.

So, are you saying that if someone accepts Christ and dies before being baptized, they are not fulfilling Mark 16:16, therefore, being disobedient and not having salvation? OR are you reading into scripture something that is not there? This is basically my reason for replying to your post.

I am saying that it is up to God to decide to give salvation or not to those who are not baptized. It's His call. The Holy Bible says that God can have mercy on whomever He wants. So, Catholics pray for God's mercy for all mankind rather than for God's judgement. The fact that God Himself instituted the Sacrament of Baptism and that Christ even underwent baptism reveals the necessity of baptism for those who already believe in Him.

Mark 16:16 does not make baptism a requirement for salvation, but a result of being saved. God has already given salvation to those who accept Christ. Salvation is not a result of being baptized, but being baptized is the result of being saved. Your putting the horse before the cart.

I thought the horse was suppose to go before(in of front) the cart?? Isn't it cart before the horse?

But to stay on topic, I don't think baptism is necessary for salvation. I think of many people who believe in God on their death beds and never had the opportunity to be baptised and also the thief on the cross. I do believe baptism is important and I do believe we should be baptised, but not because it saves us. I believe we are save by Grace alone through Faith alone. Saying we have to have baptism to be saved, is in my opinion saying that Christ can't do it all that we have to do something. Therefore if baptism is required for salvation we wouldn't be saved by grace alone.

[Sevenseas]

Yes Baptism is necessary for salvation, but most bank on the wrong baptism. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, But scriptures says that we are ALL baptised in the same Spirit, this baptism is the One that is necessary for salvation, some sprinkle some inmerge. But this is not the baptism for salvation, John baptised with Water, but preached that there was one coming after him, that would baptize with Spirit and fire, Jesus said that John merely baptised water, but that He would soon baptize with Spirit and fire, and Paul in acts 19 preached that the spiritual baptism was the one that was necessary, and even preached to some that they needed the Spiritual Baptism even after they had received the baptism of john!

Just to be clear please, are you stating that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation (ie with speaking in tongues etc)

Thanks

[OneLight]

The Scripture in the Gospel of John when Jesus said, "unless you are born of water and spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God." The Church interprets that scripture as baptism. Christ, who did not need to be baptize was baptized in the Jordan River with "water and spirit." That is the baptism that we follow.....the baptism of Christ.

When we are born into this world, we are born of water, if you consider the beginning of birth. To be born of the Spirit, one must accept Christ and become a new creation by the means of the Holy Spirit.

There is a reason why Christ had St. John baptize Him despite that He didn't have any sins. Baptism is not just about the forgiveness of sins. In the Holy Bible, St. Paul says that baptism replaced circumcision (see the scripture below). In the Old Testament, those who were circumcised were called :God's chosen people" Circumcision was the sign showing God's chosen people.

In the New Testament, baptism replaced circumcision, and baptism became the sign showing that we are" God's Family." That is why when Catholics baptize their infants, it is to include them as members of God's family. At Christ's baptism when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, God's voice was heard saying, "this is my Son, whom I am well pleased". It is the same in our baptism....a baptism of water and spirit and God declaring "this is my son/daughter" We are the sons and daughters of God born of water and spirit....buried with the same baptism as Christ's own baptism at the Jordan River.

Colossians 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

This circumcision made without hands is the sacrament of baptism. The circumcision of Christ that St. Paul speaks of is the sacrament of baptism.

You are looking at the wrong baptism. It is not water baptism that we need for salvation, but the baptism Jesus came to give. When Jesus went to be baptized by John, John refused at first, claiming he needed to be baptized by Jesus, knowing what this other baptism meant. Jesus replied.

Matthew 3:13-15

"Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him."

What is the fulfillment of righteousness Jesus speaks of? The fulfillment of prophecy and obedience to the Father.

The difference between the two are described by John earlier in verse 11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Baptism is a symbol of repentance through obedience to God. It does nothing to the spirit and soul but allow it to be obedient to God, knowing they are in His will. What does remove our sin is the sacrifice of Christ, His blood atonement.

The baptism Paul spoke of in Colossians 2:11-12 is not water baptism, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that man must be born of water and spirit, which is true, but I implied that water part was the birth water from the mothers womb, while bringing a new baby into this world, not water baptism as you implied. The mothers water, resembling the natural birth of a child, and the Spiritual birth after being baptized with the Holy Spirit upon salvation, is what was being spoken of.

[OneLight]

Yes Baptism is necessary for salvation, but most bank on the wrong baptism. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, But scriptures says that we are ALL baptised in the same Spirit, this baptism is the One that is necessary for salvation, some sprinkle some inmerge. But this is not the baptism for salvation, John baptised with Water, but preached that there was one coming after him, that would baptize with Spirit and fire, Jesus said that John merely baptised water, but that He would soon baptize with Spirit and fire, and Paul in acts 19 preached that the spiritual baptism was the one that was necessary, and even preached to some that they needed the Spiritual Baptism even after they had received the baptism of john!

Just to be clear please, are you stating that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation (ie with speaking in tongues etc)

Thanks

I can't answer for our brother, but if I am add that when we accept Christ as our Savior, He imparts in us His Holy Spirit where we are filled with His Spirit at that moment. This is not necessarily accompanied with speaking in tongues as found in Acts, though it may happen at the same time.