Should we accept the doctrine of the Trinity?

[Tyler John]

I was discussing biblical truth with a friend a short while ago. He believes that the bible 'has all the answers and tells all the truth'. Okay, fair enough, but where does he stand on the idea that some widely-held doctrines are not actually defined or mentioned in the bible? Of course, when it came to the Trinity, a word never used in scipture, he was able to quote all manner of texts to support the concept and why we should accept the doctrine. If the bible does not use the word and so, clearly, does not define it, how does this relate to the idea that the bible holds all the answers?

Personally, I am of the opinion that we should not use words that, again in my opinion, re-define what the bible actually teaches. Although texts can be used to 'prove' the existence of purgatory, this is not something the bible ever mentions and so I am simply not prepared to accept that it is a valid 'Christian' term or doctrine. Why should I treat the doctrine of a holy 'Trinity' any differently?

Now, don't misunderstand me! I believe that Yahweh is revealed as Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these divine facets are inextricably linked and inseperable. But I believe this from interpreting a range of passages and drawing inferences; and, except in the context of posts like this, I refuse to refer to the idea by some post-biblical name invented by a Roman insitution that had already abandoned the message and body of Jesus. (I refer here to the church institutionalised by the Roman Empire, not the later Roman Catholic denomination.) In other words, my belief is based upon what the bible actually says, not the doctrinal teaching of others who invent new words and rules.

I would be very interested to know what others think, but prefer to keep it all polite and respectful!

Edited October 3, 2012 by Tyler John

[Tyler John]

The word "Bible" does not exist in the Holy Bible, so what do you want to call the Christian "Bible" since the word "Bible" doesn't exist in it? Should we call it Christian "Scripture"? Should we call it "Book of Life" since that word exists in the Bible? Or should we simply call it "Book?"

Ha ha! Nice one!

The word 'bible' merely means 'book'. I would happily call it a book, but that would confuse the fact that it is made up of many books. 'Scripture' really means 'writing', although we probably all accept its meaning as 'divinely inspired writings'. Similarly, I can acept that the word 'bible' refers to the 'divinely inspired writings accepted by Christians'. But, Oh! this is getting complex!

Of course, in a sense you've caught me out. However, I don't equate the bible with doctrines that claim biblical justification. To clarify, therefore, the question I am raising is about doctrines, not words per se.

[Guest LadyC]

the word "christian" isn't in the bible either.

the concept of the trinity is very much present throughout the bible. just because there was not an english word, or its equivalent, at the time the bible was written doesn't change that.

i don't have time to go through and find all the scripture references, but if you do your research, you can find them. first, the word elohim in reference to God was the plural form of the word. second,

even God talks to himself as "us" (Let US create man in OUR own image... let US go down and confuse their language...)

third, the bible makes multiple references to all three... God (the Father), Jesus, and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

fourth, Jesus says if you've seen Him, you've seen the Father

fifth. the bible clearly identifies all three "persons" of God and distinguishes them from one another.

here, i took a moment to look up a page that provides scriptural support for everything i just mentioned, and several other points that i didn't include. feel freeto look it over.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

[other one]

Acts 26:28-29

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

KJV

[Guest]

The word "Bible" does not exist in the Holy Bible, so what do you want to call the Christian "Bible" since the word "Bible" doesn't exist in it? Should we call it Christian "Scripture"? Should we call it "Book of Life" since that word exists in the Bible? Or should we simply call it "Book?"

Ha ha! Nice one!

The word 'bible' merely means 'book'. I would happily call it a book, but that would confuse the fact that it is made up of many books. 'Scripture' really means 'writing', although we probably all accept its meaning as 'divinely inspired writings'. Similarly, I can acept that the word 'bible' refers to the 'divinely inspired writings accepted by Christians'. But, Oh! this is getting complex!

Of course, in a sense you've caught me out. However, I don't equate the bible with doctrines that claim biblical justification. To clarify, therefore, the question I am raising is about doctrines, not words per se.

Yes

Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. Isaiah 24:23

The Book

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

On The Mighty LORD Of Armies

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

The Lord God Creator

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Who's Holy Name

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

I Carry

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Bless His Holy Name

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

~

I Wonder

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6

Who Would Dare

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Psalms 2:1-4

Attempt To Strip The Son From His Father

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalms 2:10-12

I Wonder

I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 1 John 2:21-26

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:11-15

Love, Your Brother Joe

[other one]

If we are going to discuss this, I believe it would be helpful to define what the "doctrine of the trinity" is.

While the word "trinity" isn't in any of my bible translations, the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" phrase is and that would be a simple representation of Trinity.... So I can't see where the missing word in the text of scripture would rule it out when it substitutes an obvious replacement phrase.

[Leaf99]

Well, quite simply... the Bible does not hold all answers. It is first and foremost a work on salvation. It is also compilation of documents relating to one particular narrative of salvation. The Bible is a historical work, an archival work, a work of literature, and many other things.

It does not explain the workings of say the reproduction of pine trees. It won't help me with differential equations. It is very lacking as a source of mechanical knowledge. But that is not the object of the Bible.

So, if the object of the Bible is to teach salvation, and it does not explicitly state the trinity, then explicit statement of the trinity is probably not necessary for salvation. What is necessary, it would seem, is understanding that God exists, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy spirit is imparted from the Father to Jesus to us. That this faith as well as the fruit it bears are necessary. It is likely many believers would go on to say, aha, this is the trinity... But it is the substance, not the token, that matters.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Leaf99

[Sevenseas]

So, if the object of the Bible is to teach salvation, and it does not explicitly state the trinity, then explicit statement of the trinity is probably not necessary for salvation. What is necessary, it would seem, is understanding that God exists, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy spirit is imparted from the Father to Jesus to us. That this faith as well as the fruit it bears are necessary. It is likely many believers would go on to say, aha, this is the trinity... But it is the substance, not the token, that matters.

An interesting thing that the Bible DOES teach, is that mankind is not capable of comprehending God.

The Bible, in language I think you might appreciate, is just a little handbook to help all us rebellious creatures to know in which direction

we can find the God Who created us.

What exactly are you trying to prove? You seem to be getting at something, is there a shortcut to get to it?

[Leaf99]

So, if the object of the Bible is to teach salvation, and it does not explicitly state the trinity, then explicit statement of the trinity is probably not necessary for salvation. What is necessary, it would seem, is understanding that God exists, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy spirit is imparted from the Father to Jesus to us. That this faith as well as the fruit it bears are necessary. It is likely many believers would go on to say, aha, this is the trinity... But it is the substance, not the token, that matters.

An interesting thing that the Bible DOES teach, is that mankind is not capable of comprehending God.

The Bible, in language I think you might appreciate, is just a little handbook to help all us rebellious creatures to know in which direction

we can find the God Who created us.

What exactly are you trying to prove? You seem to be getting at something, is there a shortcut to get to it?

hmm I really said exactly what I was getting at. But I'll reword!

It's more important to believe and know the Father, Jesus, and the holy spirit than to develop and understand terminology.

[gdemoss]

I see and understand both sides of the issue. I for one am neither opposed to calling God a trinity nor dogmatic about the need for the term. God sat me down and explained to me who he is and how I can understand it, and told me to be gentle with those who don't quite get it yet. He is ever reminding me to help others learn about him the way that I did. He says that I cannot simply 'educate' people as that is not how it happened for me. I must provoke them unto love and good works which will open up their understanding of the Holy Writ and continue to walk in Love, doing good works, that my own understanding will continue to increase. May the Lord be so kind to lead all of us in the way everlasting, especially those who are like me and very slow on the uptake. Let us love one another as love is of God. God is love. Want to call it a trinity....OK....don't want to hear about him as a trinity...OK...lets go tell some people about Jesus and testify what he has done for us unto them that they might believe and be saved.

Peace and Love in Christ,

Gary