De-Evolution of Culture

[AlexanderJ]

A Gallup poll suggests that being less religious is actually better for the economy of a country.

http://www.gallup.co...st-nations.aspx

What are the critical trends that a society is de-evolving?

I think that you might have misunderstood several of the aspects of this poll. I don't read anything in the article that supports your statement that "being less religious is actually better for the economy of a country." The article does say, however, that religion helps people in more adverse circumstances cope with life, which, seems to contradict what you propose. If the people were not able to cope, the situation (economic, social,...ect) would be in fact much worse. To say that that "being less religious is actually better for the economy of a country" in the context of this article would be like someone who does not understand medicine saying that antibiotics must be bad because most of those who take them are ill.

I quote from the article:

"Implications

Social scientists have put forth numerous possible explanations for the relationship between the religiosity of a population and its average income level. One theory is that religion plays a more functional role in the world's poorest countries, helping many residents cope with a daily struggle to provide for themselves and their families. A previous Gallup analysis supports this idea, revealing that the relationship between religiosity and emotional wellbeing is stronger among poor countries than among those in the developed world."

[slowpoke55]

AlexanderJ

"Suggests" is the keyword in my post. I'm not drawing a conclusion but trying to provoke clarity on what de-evolving culture means. Hence the question about critical trends.

[GoldenEagle]

See post #17:

I’m speaking of culture in general. But this OP was in reference to Romans 1 in the Bible pointing to the degeneration and fall of the Roman Empire (who’s symbol was an eagle ironically). History repeats itself with patterns would you agree?

Technology has evolved I agree through inventions and science. While this is good it also brings new challenges. As an example what percentage of the internet websites are dedicated to pornography?

Seems to me like you are equating tolerance with positive evolution of culture? Are we to take a more universal approach or outlook on culture in order to be “enlightened”?

Christianity and it’s set of morals isn’t failing. Humanity is simply de-evolving as more and more people turn away from God. Your thoughts?

Well, the fact that a high percentage of web sites is devoted to porn is an indication that there is a certain market out there. I think you are making a methodological error here. Do you really think that an equivalent offer of porn several thousands years ago, would have not been met with an equivalent request? Not even under complete anonymity? I doubt it. Our biological urges did not have time to change so dramatically.

In any case, the comparison cannot be made for lack of the necessary technology in the past.

So, what is the real problem? The technology or the biological urges?

Ciao

- viole

The real problem is our sinful nature that leads us to follow our heart and lust (idoletry) after things that will not satisfy. Only God satisfies.

Pornography is a sin committed in one’s heart according to Jesus.

Matt. 5:28

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

All have sinned.

Rom. 8:23

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Those who sin are slaves to sin according to Jesus.

John 8:34

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.

The Lord is patient with us and wants us to chose Him.

1 Pet. 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The new creation in Christ (Christian/Beleiver/Christ-follower) has the spirit of the Holy Spirit inside him or her. Only with God’s holy Spirit can we resist tempatation to sin. The natural man (one he does not claim Christ as Savior) is under the law and while he may do good as mentioned before it does nothing to gain him God’s favor.

Gal. 5:16-18

¹⁶ I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. ¹⁷ For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. ¹⁸ But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

These are the works of the flesh or natural man…

Gal. 5:19-21

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, ²⁰ idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, ²¹ envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

These are the fruit on the other hand of someone who is filled with God’s Holy Spirit and claims Christ as Savior.

Gal. 5:22-26

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. ²⁴ And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ²⁵ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. ²⁶ Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Christians are not to partake in sin. Particularly sin against their bodies.

Rom. 12:1

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

How does a Christian do this? By not giving room for falling into temptation and more importantly trusting God through Jesus Christ. Christians are commanded to “put on the Lord Jesus Chris.”

Rom. 13:14

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

God Bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

A Gallup poll suggests that being less religious is actually better for the economy of a country.

http://www.gallup.co...st-nations.aspx

What are the critical trends that a society is de-evolving?

And for the most part the Gallup poll is right. Religions are not better for the economy of a country. Particularly the religions of the countries below. Christ is better for people though.

As to the critical trends that a society is de-evolving... have you read the OP and corresponding passage in Rom. 1? See post #17:

This was the question asked in the poll:

http://www.gallup.co...st-nations.aspx

Is religion part of your daily life?

Country/ % who answered yes

Bangladesh 99%+

Niger 99%+

Yemen 99%

Indonesia 99%

Malawi 99%

Sri Lanka 99%

Somaliland Region 98%

Djibouti 98%

Mauritania 98%

Burundi 98%

Of the 10 countries listed that had the highest religiosity 7 were primarily countries where Islam was the predominant religion. That says a lot doesn’t it? 2 were countries that were Christian. I’m not sure of the history of Burundi but I have friends who lived in Malawi. Malawi was run by a dictatorship for decades and economy went down the drain. The decline in the economy had nothing to do with religion but with totalitarian regime that was extremely corrupt. The last one is a Buddhist nation - Sri Lanka. I’m sure there is a reasonable explanation for Burundi to be included on this list.

Bangladesh Muslim 89.5%, Hindu 9.6%, other 0.9% (2004) From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/bg.html

Niger Muslim 80%, other (includes indigenous beliefs and Christian) 20% From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/ng.html

Yemen Muslim (Islam - official) including Shaf'i (Sunni) and Zaydi (Shia), small numbers of Jewish, Christian, and Hindu From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/ym.html

Indonesia Muslim 86.1%, Protestant 5.7%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 1.8%, other or unspecified 3.4% (2000 census) From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/ym.html

Malawi Christian 82.7%, Muslim 13%, other 1.9%, none 2.5% (1998 census) From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/mi.html

Sri Lanka Buddhist (official) 69.1%, Muslim 7.6%, Hindu 7.1%, Christian 6.2%, unspecified 10% (2001 census provisional data) From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/ce.html

Somaliland Region Sunni Muslim (Islam) (official, according to the Transitional Federal Charter) From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/so.html

Djibouti Muslim 94%, Christian 6% From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/dj.html

Mauritania Muslim (official) 100% From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/mr.html

Burundi Christian 67% (Roman Catholic 62%, Protestant 5%), indigenous beliefs 23%, Muslim 10% From: https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/by.html

Also…

http://www.gallup.co...st-nations.aspx

Is religion part of your daily life?

Country/ % who answered yes

Estonia 16%

Sweden 17%

Denmark 19%

Japan 24%

Hong Kong 24%

United Kingdom 27%

Vietnam 30%

France 30%

Russia 34%

Belarus 34%

From the article/poll itself...

In three of the four lower income countries on the list -- Estonia, Russia, and Belarus -- the Soviet government restricted religious expression for decades until the U.S.S.R.'s collapse in 1991. The final country is Vietnam, where the government also has a history of limiting religious practice.

Are you saying we should model the old Soviet Union or the practices in Vietnam?

Sweden, Denmark, Hong Kong, United Kingdom, and France all have Christian roots. Japan’s economy is so grand because half the economy is subsidized and they have a tiny military budget. Plus they’re as a culture kneck deep in ancestor worship from I hear from someone who lives there which I suppose isn’t considered a religion? Perhaps I’m over-simplifying here.

So in conclusion this gallop poll includes all religions. Yet we know there is only one Way to God and that is the person of Jesus Christ.

But I digress since the poll really has little to do with the OP. We are not talking about economical degradation but social de-evolution. I'll get back to that now and the rest of the post.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Seems like this post didn't go through or I forgot to post it... Re-typed.

See post #17:

I’m speaking of culture in general. But this OP was in reference to Romans 1 in the Bible pointing to the degeneration and fall of the Roman Empire (who’s symbol was an eagle ironically). History repeats itself with patterns would you agree?

That's too general of a statement can you be more specific? Cycles can be tied to the limitations of economic and political systems. For example: an economic system that allows the hording of wealth and resources will eventually exhaust its resources and attempt to conquer foreign resources. That can happen peacefully or violently.

See the OP. Also see Romans 1 along with:

Interesting thoughts but I wasn’t really discussing economic systems or wealth building. I was speaking of cultural values, morals, or lack thereof. The discussion is geared towards understanding how idolatry (rejecting or replacing God) has lead to all sorts of evils as described in the OP.

Seems to me like you are equating tolerance with positive evolution of culture? Are we to take a more universal approach or outlook on culture in order to be “enlightened”?

My point is equality is a positive evolution of culture. Would you agree with this?

Positive evolution of culture… Let me rephrase the question and expand. Universalism is not a positive quality of culture if that is what you’re talking about? Post-modernism is not a positive quality of culture if that is what you refer to? Tolerance across the board (no standard of Good or Evil) is not positive if that is what your mean?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

We live longer than before. Violent crime rates are certainly lower than they were a century ago. Less people die in warfare than before. Per capita GDP is up almost across the board as compared to a hundred years ago. The GDP of the poverty stricken now in the west is much higher than it was. Look at how many less people die from communicable diseases. Alright, even given the spurious use of the word evolution (evolution is a blind process that isn't interested in making anything 'better') I fail to see how culture has de evolved. Given that, a hundred years ago racism was rampant, sexism in culture and laws, violence... what are you comparing to that exactly? That people have easier access to porn?

See the OP.

I am comparing the current situation in the world with Romans 1 as discussed in this post:

[Steve_S]

I'm not certain that things are "worse" if you take Romans 1 into consideration, worldwide. They're certainly "worse" in the United States in that exact context, though. I think that if you look through history, specifically the state that greater Greece and the Roman empire in general were in at the time of the writing of Romans, you see this sort of depravity being exhibited fairly consistently at certain points across the entire course of humanity. I think that american society, morally, is in certain decline, but I think that this is likely cyclical worldwide and that Romans 1 is more of descriptive of a general warning of what humanity quickly declines into when it willfully separates itself from its Creator while simultaneously dabbling in the practices mentioned therein. I think that it can generally happen to any country, any civilization, any individual, at any given point in history when the proper ingredients present themselves.