Gifts Of The Spirit: Question

[Guest LadyC]

in tinky's defense....

some speaking in tongues is babble. that which is given as a gift of the Holy Spirit is REAL, without a doubt. but there are many who are spiritually bullied by their peers into thinking they aren't really saved if they don't speak in tongues. i've known many people who have admitted to faking it, and i've personally experienced the "bullying" in my younger years.

the NT is very clear on the appropriate use of tongues. it's to be private communication between you and God unless God compels you to speak in tongues so that He can use someone else to interpret it. the NT (forgive me for not looking up the chapter and verse here, i know i should) specifically says that one should NOT speak in tongues in certain situations, because without interpretation, it is not edifying to the body of Christ.

i've been in some churches where everyone was speaking in tongues at once, and there was no interpretation. it sounded more like a farmyard filled with cackling hens than an assembly of God's people. whether the tongues being spoken were real gifts of God (and i'm certain that many were) or whether they were babblings by people who had NOT been given the gift of tongues, but who felt they were expected to speak in tongues to fit in (and yes, i'm just as sure that there were some of those present there too), their use of the gift was inappropriate and unbiblical.

i've always wondered why so many people look at tongues as being the ultimate proof of a spirit filled christian, or why so many believe it is the only gift of the spirit. neither of those is true. there are many gifts of the spirit, some of which are much more important.

anyway, i just wanted to put that out there.

[Sevenseas]

i've always wondered why so many people look at tongues as being the ultimate proof of a spirit filled christian, or why so many believe it is the only gift of the spirit. neither of those is true. there are many gifts of the spirit, some of which are much more important.

Ultimately, it always comes down to tongues for some strange reason and yet we have that big list to consider

It seems this gift is just easy to pick on probably because of scenes like you have described which is not the proper Biblical order of course

I wonder how it would look though, if people were receiving physical healings that were GENUINE.....would someone complain about that?

We need to focus on how things should be done...a dried up church with no Holy Spirit is just as bad...it's just quieter

[Guest LadyC]

true...

[His Ambassador]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I don't care how educated he is John MacArthur is wrong. There are at least two types of "tongues". Those used for testifying in corporate worship and those that are a private prayer language. My wife was given the gift of a private prayer language. I have never heard her prayer language and have never been given the gift of either. But there is no Scripture to support Mr. MacArthur's position.

[Sevenseas]

Brothers and Sisters, I'm seeking opinions on this subject. I'm curious as to whether you believe certain gifts of the spirit (speaking in another tongue, raising the dead, casting out demons, prophecy, healing, etc.) ended with the apostolic age, or they continue to this day.

I hope we can discuss the actual op and not turn this into a thread on tongues cause we have that thread already for thrashing around in

[GoldenEagle]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I don't care how educated he is John MacArthur is wrong. There are at least two types of "tongues". Those used for testifying in corporate worship and those that are a private prayer language. My wife was given the gift of a private prayer language. I have never heard her prayer language and have never been given the gift of either. But there is no Scripture to support Mr. MacArthur's position.

So perhaps this in bold isn't exactly helpful? Help me understand... One's education should have little or no bearing on the truth? We're all equal before God's eyes no?

There are Christians with different views as this is a very diverse site. In certain things such as tongues and a personal prayer language perhaps we should just agree we are free in Christ to disagree? (See Gal. 5:1 and Rom. 8:2)

Gal. 5:1

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Rom. 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Brothers and Sisters, I'm seeking opinions on this subject. I'm curious as to whether you believe certain gifts of the spirit (speaking in another tongue, raising the dead, casting out demons, prophecy, healing, etc.) ended with the apostolic age, or they continue to this day.

I hope we can discuss the actual op and not turn this into a thread on tongues cause we have that thread already for thrashing around in

But also as sevenseas pointed out there is a thread for that particular topic of the gift of tongues.

See:

[GoldenEagle]

Brothers and Sisters, I'm seeking opinions on this subject. I'm curious as to whether you believe certain gifts of the spirit (speaking in another tongue, raising the dead, casting out demons, prophecy, healing, etc.) ended with the apostolic age, or they continue to this day.

There is evidence today (I know of personal stories of goind doing wonderful things to protect His people and draw others to Him) of God allowing others to speak in a different tongue, cast out demons, heal, and even prophecy (speak the truth according to God's Word in people's lives). However, I agree with Parker1 that I'm unceratin of people being raised from the dead. I've not heard or know anyone personally raised from the dead. Has anyone on the thread?

Also, I do agree sometimes people abuse the gifts of healing, tongues, and prophecy.

Tongues are not required for salvation. Salvation is a gift of God through faith, not works, in Christ. (Eph. 2:8-10) That's like someone saying everyone should have brown eyes to be saved. What do you think?

Here's a thought:

Salvation is absoutely free for us but it was extremly costly to God.

Eph. 2:8-10

⁸ For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; ⁹ not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. ¹⁰ For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Or everyone should be an eye (have the same gift) in the body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12:17-19) It's a condition that is not consistent with Scripture. Do you agree?

1 Cor. 12:17-19

¹⁷ If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? ¹⁸ But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. ¹⁹ If they were all one member, where would the body be?

To make sure I understand the OP are you speaking of fruits of the Spirit or gifts of the Spirit? Fruits of the Spirit should be evident in all Christian's lives no? To me it seems the Gifts of the Spirit specifically (apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, teachers) are for the equipping of the Body of Christ? (Eph. 4:11-13)

Eph. 4:11-13

¹¹ And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, ¹² for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; ¹³ until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

[His Ambassador]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I don't care how educated he is John MacArthur is wrong. There are at least two types of "tongues". Those used for testifying in corporate worship and those that are a private prayer language. My wife was given the gift of a private prayer language. I have never heard her prayer language and have never been given the gift of either. But there is no Scripture to support Mr. MacArthur's position.

So perhaps this in bold isn't exactly helpful? Help me understand... One's education should have little or no bearing on the truth? We're all equal before God's eyes no?

No matter how educated one is if what he/she teaches is not supported by Scripture then they have no business teaching it. Humans have a tendency to believe the teachings of one with degrees after their name is more truthful that others God may use. Most of the disciples would have been disqualified with this reasoning.

[gdemoss]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I don't care how educated he is John MacArthur is wrong. There are at least two types of "tongues". Those used for testifying in corporate worship and those that are a private prayer language. My wife was given the gift of a private prayer language. I have never heard her prayer language and have never been given the gift of either. But there is no Scripture to support Mr. MacArthur's position.

So perhaps this in bold isn't exactly helpful? Help me understand... One's education should have little or no bearing on the truth? We're all equal before God's eyes no?

No matter how educated one is if what he/she teaches is not supported by Scripture then they have no business teaching it. Humans have a tendency to believe the teachings of one with degrees after their name is more truthful that others God may use. Most of the disciples would have been disqualified with this reasoning.

I often think of all the highly educated Pharisees who put Jesus down because they claimed he had no education. There is no command or even a suggestion to build and establish bible colleges or seminaries. Wonder why that is? Seems to me that Jesus was concerned that there might not even be much faith on Earth when he returned...won't he be shocked to find all these fancy schools and churches with his name all over them?

Gary

[Guest]

in tinky's defense....

some speaking in tongues is babble. that which is given as a gift of the Holy Spirit is REAL, without a doubt. but there are many who are spiritually bullied by their peers into thinking they aren't really saved if they don't speak in tongues. i've known many people who have admitted to faking it, and i've personally experienced the "bullying" in my younger years.

I am so with you on this, LadyC. I long ago lost count of the times sincere folks told me I wasn't saved -- then some freaked out when I reminded them that its the Holy Spirit who decides who gets what gift. I've had to deal with that kind of bullying too.

On the rest, I don't see anywhere in the NT where the gifts ceased. There are testimonies of all kinds of miracles happening in third world countries, and especially in the Chinese house church movement, and elsewhere. God certainly has not changed.