making sure im not blinded from emotions when standing by Truth

[GoldenEagle]

GoldenEagle: "Numenian I know you already know this but I disagree we're simply citizens of Heaven. We have dual-citizenship until Christ's return. We can deny the existence of the physical world around us all we want but that doesn't change we live in the world yet we're set apart."

Brother, I have to say I am surprised after all our exchanges that you somehow think that I advocate the denial of our physical existence in the world. Over and over and over I have emphasized our need to minister to the least of these and the lost. Just above, I said this: 'Our sole (and soul) purpose is to be about the business of advancing the kingdom, for God's glory and those in need of Christ, and not dallying in the entanglements of worldly affairs. We are in the world for God's ends, not of the world in service to earthly powers.' No dual citizenship; that is a house divided. And the lack of dual citizenship, an alien and foreigner in any and all countries, does not absolve us or keep us from being the very best in that kingdom, following as stated in Romans13 the One rule: Love of neighbor. What could be better for any land than a solid commitment to that?

Perhaps I misunderstood then. Thank you for clarifying about some who deny our physical existence in the world.

I would say you’ve consistently argued that “being the very best in that {insert country here] kingdom” means not being involved in politics. Lol. How is that good stewardship?

I think OneLight’s post really sums up the issue with the argument of not being involved in politics. See: http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/158246-what-does-it-mean-to-be-worldly/#entry1878600

[exrockstar]

Encouraging a vote for either I find equally wrong. To say Obama is a greater sinner or more fallen than Romney misses the mark. Not that it matters, but where is Obama breaking all these commandments? Romney is not? Never mind, that would draw us both into a hole.

Here is the heart of the matter.

"You are the salt" Matt 5:13

Once every 4 years (or 2) the nation comes and decides where their country heads. Granted, it is typically downhill but we as Christians should be slowing the momentum.

The ones slowing the momentum are becoming smaller in number because social matters are now more important than economical issues.

So to say "I'm a Chrisitan" is more than just saying it. It is doing it. it is not about choosing the less evil. It is about who best represents my beliefs OR allows me to excercise

what I have learned. If a Christian somehows concludes that Obama does then I am baffled by it especially if it a Chistian that has rant and raved about the evils in society.

Abortion or same-sex is a fraction of the issue. Redistribution goes against God's will.

[Sevenseas]

I agree Sevnseas.

Big Hug to you. God bless you!

awww.......thanks! definately heartwarming and welcoming

[Sevenseas]

I have let this be known before but arguing and complaining about politics should not ever be a point to break fellowship over. Our sole (and soul) purpose is to be about the business of advancing the kingdom, for God's glory and those in need of Christ, and not dallying in the entanglements of worldly affairs. We are in the world for God's ends, not of the world in service to earthly powers. The motto of America is "In God we trust" and that is where all our trust should go; if all the people did this with their whole heart, this nation would be an Eden. Changing laws does not change hearts. The Law was not enough for the Jews. As a citizen of heaven--and heaven alone, I need to add--our reliance is on spirit and grace through a total commitment on the love of God. Pagan Rome was a tyrannical rule of sin and cruelty: what did Jesus have to say? "Render unto Caesar..." God is in control.

I don't think he is worried about the politics. I think he notices that the ten commandments are being broken right, left and center by the person

that this pastor told the congregation to vote for

I am sure that would concern you as well

Abortion and gay so called marriage are not political issues.

I see the politics--his view that a vote for Romney was somehow a vote for a God agenda and his view that their choice was a vote for Satan's agenda--as the root. If both were not involved in what I see as wasted and dangerous entanglement of ppolitics, the problem would never be there. Encouraging a vote for either I find equally wrong. To say Obama is a greater sinner or more fallen than Romney misses the mark. Not that it matters, but where is Obama breaking all these commandments? Romney is not? Never mind, that would draw us both into a hole.

"Abortion and gay so called marriage are not political issues." They are is one is the law of the land and the other furthers the ideal of equality this country is founded on.

Well, actually, for some reason you do seem to see what, to the best of my knowledge, he neither wrote nor implied.

For example, you state this

I see the politics--his view that a vote for Romney was somehow a vote for a God agenda and his view that their choice was a vote for Satan's agenda--as the root.

YET, where did EX make the statement that a vote for Romney was somehow a vote for God? Did he make that connection on another post in another thread because I do not see that comment by him in this thread....I only see YOU somehow trying to pass those words off as his when he

did not go close to saying that.

He actually wrote this:

The reasoning behind their support is because Romney was "anti-Christ-like." I get it (2 Cor 11:3)

However, God has used non-believers to bring forth His plan for His people.

which explicitly show us all that he does NOT

think that a vote for Romney would have been a vote for God. In fact, he states the opposite.

Further, no one is arguing about politics and EX is merely asking a question.

I would point out to you, however, that a difference in opinion regarding something that God gives us a choice on is not an argument

unless one person becomes aggravated that others do not agree with them.....even then, it can hardly be called an argument if only

one side is aggravated. I think it would resemble a tempest in a teapot rather than a fisticuffs

I am really surprised that you would equate a person who believes that abortion and gay sex and marriage are wrong with a person

who is in service to the earthly powers (your words)

I would like to point out to you that even if every single person in the US did actually trust God with their whole heart? it would still

not be Eden or an Eden because that chapter is closed. God shut that down and cursed the earth and we will not have perfect

anything until that which is perfect has come....as Paul saw through a glass darkly and the apostles who actually physcially

walked with Jesus had problems and sinned, it is evident that it is incorrect to interpret perfection as the Bible.

We know in part and we see in part. We are not perfect or sinless.

If you judge people who vote, who gives you the right to do that? Choice is a biblical principal.....we get to choose.

Sorry, but I am not going to go into a hole with you because I just happen to strenuously disagree with your opinions

No hard feelings though.....but I appreciate the freedom I have to express that

[GoldenEagle]

I don't think he is worried about the politics. I think he notices that the ten commandments are being broken right, left and center by the person

that this pastor told the congregation to vote for

I am sure that would concern you as well

Abortion and gay so called marriage are not political issues.

I see the politics--his view that a vote for Romney was somehow a vote for a God agenda and his view that their choice was a vote for Satan's agenda--as the root. If both were not involved in what I see as wasted and dangerous entanglement of ppolitics, the problem would never be there. Encouraging a vote for either I find equally wrong. To say Obama is a greater sinner or more fallen than Romney misses the mark. Not that it matters, but where is Obama breaking all these commandments? Romney is not? Never mind, that would draw us both into a hole.

Sevenseas

"Abortion and gay so called marriage are not political issues."

They are is one is the law of the land and the other furthers the ideal of equality this country is founded on.

Perhaps they are political issues today. Before they were political issues they were spiritual issues.

1. Life: God has a purpose for every unborn child

Psalm 139:13-16

13 “For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.

14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.

15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them."

Looks like if a man hurt a woman in the Bible and the baby died that he was to be punished (Ex. 21:22-23). So an unborn baby was considered life. How does one reconcile this as a Christian?

Ex. 21:22-23

²² “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. ²³ But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

Rulers are to carry out good and punish evil.

Rom. 13:3-5

³ For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. ⁴ For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. ⁵ Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

Finally, children are a gift from the Lord. Should we be destroying gifts from God?

Psalm 127:3

Truly children are a gift from the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward.

God knows us in the womb.

Psalm 22:9

⁹ But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.

¹⁰ I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God.

For more see: http://prolifeamerica.com/Bible_Study_Links.cfm

2. Marriage: One man, one woman for life.

Notice Genesis 1:27 doesn’t say two men or two women.

Genesis 1:27

God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

God joins a husband a wife to be one flesh.

Gen. 2:24

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Mark 10:2-9

² The Pharisees came and asked Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” testing Him.

³ And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?”

⁴ They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.”

⁵ And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. ⁶ But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ⁷ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, ⁸ and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. ⁹ Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Gen. 5:2

He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

[GoldenEagle]

Abortion or same-sex is a fraction of the issue. Redistribution goes against God's will.

I agree. Care to expand on this in bold? Bible verses are always helpful.

[exrockstar]

Abortion or same-sex is a fraction of the issue. Redistribution goes against God's will.

I agree. Care to expand on this in bold? Bible verses are always helpful.

Proverbs 22:2

Rich and poor have this in common: The LORD is the Maker of them all

Proverbs 30:8

Remove falsehood and lies far from me;

Give me neither poverty nor riches—

Feed me with the food allotted to me;

just to name a few

[MorningGlory]

Abortion or same-sex is a fraction of the issue. Redistribution goes against God's will.

I agree. Care to expand on this in bold? Bible verses are always helpful.

Proverbs 22:2

Rich and poor have this in common: The LORD is the Maker of them all

Proverbs 30:8

Remove falsehood and lies far from me;

Give me neither poverty nor riches—

Feed me with the food allotted to me;

just to name a few

And Amen!

[GoldenEagle]

Sevenseas

"Abortion and gay so called marriage are not political issues."

They are is one is the law of the land and the other furthers the ideal of equality this country is founded on.

So Numenian...

Do you believe abortion is okay since it's the law of the land? Do you believe that marriage shouldn't be defined as the covenant relationship between one man and one woman?

[Farmgal]

The Early Church did not think that the redistribution of wealth was wrong; most were communist enterprises. Not Marxism, Christism. They shared in everything. Take the scene where in Acts a couple are struck dead for their failure to redistribute their wealth. In such close and closed communities the slackers and corrupt officials were easily identified. This communal style of living was necessary for Christians were seen periodically as enemies of the state and this was a way to survive the prejudice and persecution.

I agree with this almost completely, I believe we are called to live as this today.

I don't agree with the concept of redistribution of wealth on the government level, the people were called to share all they had with others - directly - not through gov't intervention. The difference would be having a relationship with those who shared all, it was an obedience on the part of the givers, not a forced edict of any wordly gov't.

We are the Body of Christ and we were called to care for the poor and the widow - not the gov't - we're just doing a really bad job in America, we are too comfortable in our western lifestyle here to step out in faith to actually look like the Church in Acts.