**** The Torpedos.....

[Guest]

I am posting this link so that you can decide if you want to watch it or not. It is not dirty or against the TOS, but I want to make sure that it can be watched by those who choose to without having to burden anyone with approving it. Mods, please take a look and if you really feel it is inappropriate for this audience please remove it.

http://patriotaction...msg_share_video

[other one]

sounds good to me.

[OldShep]

Not a mod, but...As long as we allow God to be at the Helm... "Full Steam Ahead" ...

IMHO

[SavedByGrace1980]

I am posting this link so that you can decide if you want to watch it or not. It is not dirty or against the TOS, but I want to make sure that it can be watched by those who choose to without having to burden anyone with approving it. Mods, please take a look and if you really feel it is inappropriate for this audience please remove it.

http://patriotaction...msg_share_video

I watched the video at the link - thanks for posting it.

This is not a criticism of the video per se, as I happen to mostly agree with its sentiment. I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to springboard into a discussion that I've been wanting to have for some time. That discussion revolves around patriotism.

We know with certainty (because it's in Scriptures) that Israel was God's nation. Indeed - at its inception - God was considered Israel's leader. Israel's King.

Even after Israel demanded of God that they have an earthly king - just like all the other nations of the world - God gave them the desires of their heart. But He did not forsake them. He still honored and blessed their Kings (when they honored Him).

Again, all this is in Scripture and it's pretty clear. What is NOT so clear is whether or not God honors and blesses nations, today. Specifically, does He bless the USA? And a corollary question - where does patriotism (i.e. love of one's country) fit into His plan?

First - Does God bless the USA (even to the extent that the USA might prevail against another nation, suggesting that nation might NOT have God's blessings)?

To begin with, I'm pretty sure that it cannot be found directly IN SCRIPTURE that God blesses the USA (or any other nation). I know there are verses that say He will bless those nations that bless Israel - but to me these verses are more indirect than direct - since no nation is mentioned by name.

So my point here is that there is "wiggle room" - there's enough to suggest the USA MIGHT be blessed; and there's enough (through omission) to suggest otherwise. Personally, I come down on the side that God HAS blessed the USA (in part because of our support for Israel) - but I'm certainly not adamant about it. I'm open to considering alternative viewpoints on this.

I'll go a little further out on a limb and suggest there is evidence the USA is blessed by God for other reasons than its support of Israel. When people came to this land from other parts of the world to settle what is now the USA, they found a land rich in resources. Everything was in place to create a nation of prosperous people. But it was up to the people to decide what to do with it.

What HAVE the people done with it? Well, we've gone to Europe's defense - twice in the prior century - in their struggles against totalitarianism. Because of our financial wherewithal, we've been able to send Christian missionaries all around the world. Surely God blesses that.

So that brings me finally to the topic of patriotism - i.e. a strong love of country. A strong patriotism can sometimes be compared to a religious fervor. For some, perhaps patriotism REPLACES their love of God.

THAT is the problem I have with it.

Nothing should ever exceed or replace a Christian's love of God. Not love of family, nor even love of country.

Thoughts?

Blessings!

-Ed

[OldShep]

So my point here is that there is "wiggle room" - there's enough to suggest the USA MIGHT be blessed; and there's enough (through omission) to suggest otherwise. Personally, I come down on the side that God HAS blessed the USA (in part because of our support for Israel) - but I'm certainly not adamant about it. I'm open to considering alternative viewpoints on this.

I'll go a little further out on a limb and suggest there is evidence the USA is blessed by God for other reasons than its support of Israel. When people came to this land from other parts of the world to settle what is now the USA, they found a land rich in resources. Everything was in place to create a nation of prosperous people. But it was up to the people to decide what to do with it.

What HAVE the people done with it? Well, we've gone to Europe's defense - twice in the prior century - in their struggles against totalitarianism. Because of our financial wherewithal, we've been able to send Christian missionaries all around the world. Surely God blesses that.

So that brings me finally to the topic of patriotism - i.e. a strong love of country. A strong patriotism can sometimes be compared to a religious fervor. For some, perhaps patriotism REPLACES their love of God.

THAT is the problem I have with it.

Nothing should ever exceed or replace a Christian's love of God. Not love of family, nor even love of country.

Thoughts?

Blessings!

-Ed

As a cold war vet. and Vietnam/Cambodia I agree with your point of view and may even climb out there on that:

God first, country and family after..dks

[nebula]

I would agree with the premise of what he says. However, I disagree in that he isn't calling us to begin on our knees.

[OneLight]

As a Christian, nobody should have to suggest I begin on my knees. That should be automatic in any situation. I have approved this as a link only for all of us who have been watching for the next move from "our side". I do hope this does take root and goes down the right road. I do fear that there are some lone rangers who will try to resolve this issue by themselves, or a small radical group, which would hinder anything good that may come from this call out.