Why I am a Trinitarian

[Adstar]

Hello to all my learned Brothers in faith.

As I have been reading through this thread and admiring all your efforts to put forward your thoughts on this meaty subject of the nature of God , The Messiah, and the Spirit. A thought has come to me that I would like to share with you all.

If we agree that the mystery of the nature of God can only be known if it is revealed to one by the Spirit then is it not pointless to try and irrefutably prove our thoughts on this issue by using scripture? If indeed God wills His nature to remain a mystery, would He not insure that a clear " Irrefutable" view of Him would not be made available through the scriptures?

One can look at the scriptures and say that God Has revealed His nature in them and also say in the same breath that He has hidden His nature in scripture. How can this be said? Well we see it here two differing positions 1) trinity and 2) Oneness being put forward and both positions can be supported by scripture. So therefore the truth is revealed and also hidden at the same time.

In saying all I have said, I am not saying to discuss this issue is vanity or a waste of time. On the contrary we must all whiteness to what our conscience moves us to reveal. I am more interested in the attitudes of the people involved in this discussion.

Question: Do you believe that you can prove your position using scripture and successfully disprove the other stance using scripture?

If you answer yes to this question then the mystery is not a mystery any more.

What is my thought on the matter? Well I believe it is a mystery that will be revealed by the Spirit (irrespective of it's nature) when, and to whom it pleases. So if you believe you have understanding be happy in it, and share it. but never think that you can prove it by scripture if Yahweh has willed it not to be revealed through scripture.

Just my thoughts Brothers, Please receive my thoughts in the Spirit they where given

[Guest]

Well stated my down-under Brother.

Good to see you here.

Nevertheless,  I will endeavor to serve my brothers' questions as they are searching I think more for an understanding of me and my convictions than disproving me.  I sense no breech of charity among my Brothers here.

Peace,

William

Carl,

My time is pressed and I'll try to respond before Sunday.  Thank you for your understanding.

[Guest wwatch]

ADSTAR

Welcome and thank you for your input.

I just wanted to quickly state how much I appreciate your thoughts.

One can look at the scriptures and say that God Has revealed His nature in them and also say in the same breath that He has hidden His nature in scripture.

I wanted to assure you (if you were to read all that we have said), we do believe that even after we have stated our belief as clearly as possible...as faithfully as possible to the whole of scripture, there is still much mystery left about God.  

Even though that is true we have a responsibility to understand as fully as possible and to communicate as clearly as possible the truth of the scriptures.  So, for most of us, it is simply a joy-not just a duty; it is a growth experience-not a burden to sharpen each other in our understanding.  

Let us continue in the spirit of Deut 29:29.  And, what He has revealed, we are to "rightly divide" and "teach it to others".  And, even if we were comfortable to rest in what we know and forget the rest,  the world would not let us alone.  They demand answers on every question and from every angle.  So, we constantly have to study to "show ourselves approved" and to "be ready to give a defense".

Thanks again, Adstar!

Having said that......back to the topic!

                           wwatch

[martyr]

I would have to disagree that the Bible is ineffective in proving or disproving a mystery.  2 Timothy 3:16-17 doesn't allow for if there is a difference of opinion.  True, there are some things you have to accept in faith, but there is much more in the Word that can be proven or disproven.  There cannot be the Trinity and not the Trinity, and the Word of God would not lead to confusion.  There may be hard parts to understand of the Scripture, but there is a way to understand exactly what God intended to say in every verse.

[Guest]

NOTE - Quotes have been edited for the sake of being succinct

Could you please post a reply that details ONLY the POINTS of DIVERGENCE from the traditional historic Trinitarian statement ... with your comments.

[CWJ]

1Tim3:16..."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:..."

I think this is proven by our discussion, as we all search this mystery with the finite human ability.

We can acknowledge this mystery, can see it, can know it exist as the character of God.

But ...."now I know in part"...

I believe we have His Word in explanation as far as we have the ability to exercise our faith in His Word.

1John5:7..."For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:  and these three are one,"

Notice the above doesn't say there are three gods, but points to one God.

So....what is "the three that bear record"?

To me that is the question.

To me that is the Godhead essence to be understood fully, which I question this ability in our present human existance.

Can anyone honestly say they have a 100% grasp on this intellectually,.....this true essence of God, the creator who is Spirit, yet is now embodied in Christ, yet exist indwelling all earthly saints as the promised Comforter?

This is a great discussion.

Praise God!

[Guest wwatch]

Thank you Blindseeker.

[brontosaurus]

"We can never know completely..."

That is false, foolish, and actually contrary to what God wants.

The whole book of Proverbs exhorts us to seek out the mysteries of God and that he rewards those who do so with real truths.

"We can never know God's entire fullness while on earth..."

That is true.  In fact, we will probably never know everything about Him, even for all eternity (I'll check that for sure after I've been through eternity).

BUT!!!!! - on any ONE point that is important to us...  God will give us as much as we earnestly seek for  (seek and you shall find).

So enough of the nonsense about it is beyond our comprehension to know.  I believe I have a deeper understanding of the triune nature of God than every person on this board, one that ties everyone else's ideas together in harmony because they all fit in different places.  Is this a foolish way to brag?  Not at all - because the "Trinity" bothered me from the time I was first introduced to it as a child, and I NEVER fully accepted any teaching out there as giving an accurate description.  I just believe God honored my heart that longed to know the truth so bad, and I eventually hit on something that blew my mind...  (will share later if anyone cares or believes me)

[Adstar]

Hello Bronto  

Please give us what you have recieved.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[brontosaurus]

Hey.  I wanna do this right so I need to wait 'til I have enough time to lay out the whole thing at once.  Hopefully tonight (Tuesday) or tomorrow

-bronto