Proof - What is it?

[nebula]

In Science, you don't prove something. In Science, there is no such thing as proof. You prove things in Math class but that isn't proof.

I had an atheistic Physics professor and he taught us this. How far do you want me to discuss this?

Hi Chuckt

I think I remember the definition of a Theory in science as: Something that can be proved or disproved. I think I brought up the idea that in science some theories are thought to be proved and later proved to be the opposite or disproved.

Larry, Chuck is correct. If someone in science uses the word "proof" they are using the wrong terminology.

Science is about discovery and interpreting what was discovered. And thus one performs experiments to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of these "interpretations".

It is easy to support a hypothesis, not so easy to prove it.

Correct science will describe the favor of evidence or other such expressions rather than "proven". For at any time, someone can come up with a new experiment or a new discovery that challenges the long-held belief. this has happened numerous times.

The bottom line, is that the terms "theory" and "proof" in science have different meanings and applications than they do in common lingo.

[larryt]

Not because it is not provable, but because they are bent on preserving their belief and will employ any measure no matter how absurd or unreasonable. I changed something in your statement. People are not bent on preserving their unbelief so much as preserving what they believe.

Yes, you changed something in my satement, but in doing so you altered the point I was making. People are bent on preserving their unbelief, which is why they would reject any proof and will do so even if it means being absurd. Because at that point is not about right and wrong. It is not about truth. It is about rejecting anything that forces them to change their point of view or to admit that they have been operating on the wrong information.

I don't think they are preserving belief. They preserving their unbelief in the face of strong evidence that keeps them from having to accept the truth.

Could this apply to you as well as anybody here?

No, because I don't resort to absurdity. I don't resort to irrationality in order to avoid having to admit I am wrong. I have, in the past, demonsrated that I am able to admit when I have been wrong and have done so on a number of occasions.

The original question and this question in context is about the standard you set up not whether or not you are guilty but this standard you set up would it apply to you?

Grace & Peace

LT

[larryt]

You really have a problem with people who think for themselves and expect facts to be supported and verified before simply accepting liberal dogma don't you??? It would be so much easier if you could post your ideas without these pesky people expecting you to back up your ideas with factual, corroborating data, right?

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3

on These edifying notes I went on to the next thread As I did I wondered every word we are to account for Love, Steven

I think very often the very things that bother us the most in other people are things that we are also the most guilty of.

This is very apparent to me in the responses many give that attack the messanger and not the message. Labeling someone's post as nonsense or rediculous or you're wrong, really says something about the responder.

Grace & Peace

LT

[larryt]

In Science, you don't prove something. In Science, there is no such thing as proof. You prove things in Math class but that isn't proof.

I had an atheistic Physics professor and he taught us this. How far do you want me to discuss this?

Hi Chuckt

I think I remember the definition of a Theory in science as: Something that can be proved or disproved. I think I brought up the idea that in science some theories are thought to be proved and later proved to be the opposite or disproved.

Larry, Chuck is correct. If someone in science uses the word "proof" they are using the wrong terminology.

Science is about discovery and interpreting what was discovered. And thus one performs experiments to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of these "interpretations".

It is easy to support a hypothesis, not so easy to prove it.

Correct science will describe the favor of evidence or other such expressions rather than "proven". For at any time, someone can come up with a new experiment or a new discovery that challenges the long-held belief. this has happened numerous times.

The bottom line, is that the terms "theory" and "proof" in science have different meanings and applications than they do in common lingo.

Hi Neb,

The point I am trying to make here is not about theory and proof in science but in meaningful dialogue here discussing different points of view. Statements such as: "You were proved to be wrong" areabsolutes that only breed contention and an attitude of "no I'm not" -- "yes you are" and things go nowhere or the thread gets closed down. There have been posts here in this thread already that smack of pride, superiority, ridicule that IMHO have no place in a discussion on the things of God. It really does not bother me to the point of anger that someone disagrees with me neither does it surprise me.

I was not trying to be exact with regard to science, after all it has been a loooong time since I was studying that stuff.

Grace & Peace

LT

[Guest shiloh357]

You really have a problem with people who think for themselves and expect facts to be supported and verified before simply accepting liberal dogma don't you??? It would be so much easier if you could post your ideas without these pesky people expecting you to back up your ideas with factual, corroborating data, right?

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3

on These edifying notes I went on to the next thread As I did I wondered every word we are to account for Love, Steven

I think very often the very things that bother us the most in other people are things that we are also the most guilty of.

This is very apparent to me in the responses many give that attack the messanger and not the message. Labeling someone's post as nonsense or rediculous or you're wrong, really says something about the responder.

Grace & Peace

LT

Or it may mean that someone really is wrong is posting nonsense. Yeah it isn't "nice." But some times, it simply reflects more honesty that others have the ability or integrity to face up to. Not all opinions or viewpoints are equal.

[gdemoss]

What one says about me or what I believe and profess to be true means nothing to me except that if I have not previously followed their logic to its logical end to see their error or fix error I have then I need to as:

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And...

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Because, we must....

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

When doctrine does not affect behavior of the individual, I don't find much need to know or understand it. Those who assert that 'I am wrong' or say other things like 'Nonsense' and such the like help me to exercise myself unto godliness through patience. Let em do whatever they want as it is Christ they have to face not me. We will know whether our speech was always with grace or seasoned with salt on that day.

[larryt]

What one says about me or what I believe and profess to be true means nothing to me except that if I have not previously followed their logic to its logical end to see their error or fix error I have then I need to as:

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And...

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Because, we must....

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

When doctrine does not affect behavior of the individual, I don't find much need to know or understand it. Those who assert that 'I am wrong' or say other things like 'Nonsense' and such the like help me to exercise myself unto godliness through patience. Let em do whatever they want as it is Christ they have to face not me. We will know whether our speech was always with grace or seasoned with salt on that day.

Agreed and if I might add

Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

[gdemoss]

What one says about me or what I believe and profess to be true means nothing to me except that if I have not previously followed their logic to its logical end to see their error or fix error I have then I need to as:

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And...

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Because, we must....

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

When doctrine does not affect behavior of the individual, I don't find much need to know or understand it. Those who assert that 'I am wrong' or say other things like 'Nonsense' and such the like help me to exercise myself unto godliness through patience. Let em do whatever they want as it is Christ they have to face not me. We will know whether our speech was always with grace or seasoned with salt on that day.

Agreed and if I might add

Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Amen....It be so

[NeedYouLord]

Amen and Amen...

Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit...Romans 15:13

In The Name Above Every Name...Jesus Christ of Nazareth

[Guest shiloh357]

[

What one says about me or what I believe and profess to be true means nothing to me except that if I have not previously followed their logic to its logical end to see their error or fix error I have then I need to as:

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And...

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Because, we must....

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

When doctrine does not affect behavior of the individual, I don't find much need to know or understand it. Those who assert that 'I am wrong' or say other things like 'Nonsense' and such the like help me to exercise myself unto godliness through patience. Let em do whatever they want as it is Christ they have to face not me. We will know whether our speech was always with grace or seasoned with salt on that day.

Agreed and if I might add

Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

There is also the pride of unteachableness. {{{{ Edited out Personal Attack }}}}

Telling you that you are wrong doesn't consittute thinking more highly of one's self. It is an attempt to force you to face cold hard facts. You can't defend your positions based on real facts. In truth, that should tell you something.

You need to face facts and stop trying to play the victim. {{{{ Edited out Personal Attack }}}}

Edited December 6, 2012 by shiloh357
{{{{ Edited out Personal Attack }}}}