Marijuana Question

[ayin jade]

I expect lives to be saved in Mexico and elsewhere as the market shrinks for criminal growers and traffickers.

That is unrealistic. They are criminals and will not hang up their criminal activity because the market shrinks. The drug cartel criminals will just find another source of revenue.

In Arizona, they kidnap for ransom and torture. So many that phoenix, the city not the metro area just the city, had one drug cartel kidnapping per day of hispanics, both illegal and legal residents. When this was challenged and investigated, it was found that the one per day rate was underreported and it is in fact higher. More than one per day. Expect things like that to increase with the cartels.

[Peace Maker Tony]

Here's just a quick question for you: what do you think is the more common scenario for drug-users? :

1) they start out on hard drugs, like cocaine, heroin, etc., and then graduate towards pot ........... OR

2) they start out with marijuana, and then graduate towards the hard drugs, like cocaine, heroin, etc.?

This is a​ false dichotomy. There is no graduation from one drug or another. If so you would have included cigarettes. The reason why weed is called a "gateway" drug is because it is illegal. If tobacco were illegal then it would be called a gateway drug. Why? This is because the people that sell weed also sell other harder drugs, thus making it easier for a person to get access to them.

What is with the comparisons between apples and oranges I keep seeing? Nobody graduates from cigarettes to other drugs, as is the case with non-cigarette drug-users.

Cigarettes will never be a gateway to anything, because they don't get you stoned and impair you like marijuana does, and they don't affect you in the same ways that pot does. And people who smoke cigs don't do so for the same reasons pot-smokers do, and vice versa. And about graduation, in many cases there absolutely is when it comes to pot.

The reason many people progress from the softer to harder drugs is because the former lose their effect and no longer give them the sensations they crave. This absolutely does not happen in the case of cigs. Unless you want to tell me that people who smoke cigs would start smoking weed if cigarettes were banned!

But as I've said several times in different posts, the issue of legality or illegality is a red herring.

Just admit that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Before weed became illegal, it was never called a gateway drug. It was only after it was made illegal that it was then a gateway drug. I smoked for a long time, and I mean a long time, and I never progressed neither has many of those that I smoked with. Now I know others that used coke, but it wasn't due to the high being less impactful. It was because they were persuaded into trying the other drug. This has been the case for 99 percent of the people I have known that have tried something else. Basically, you have proven that you are not knowledgeable on this subject, and are just saying the same ol government propaganda. They have a whole other reason {$$$$} for keeping it illegal. They just need to keep those that still hold a weedaphobia mentality, to continue to push their tired slogans.

If you can show me some numbers that coincide with this gateway theory I'll retract my statement. But consider, you need to provide numbers of "graduation" before and after weed became illegal.

A little bit testy, aren't you? Attack the messenger when you don't like the message. You know what, I don't care what weed was called before or after it became legal. I am debating whether or not Christians should use it, while you are just side-tracking and ignoring everything I say. You will believe what you want to believe, and you will keep on idolizing the weed. That's your right, but I believe you will answer to God for promoting drug use.

Christians and drugs. Wow, what a world!! What's next?

This is what I have noticed from people with your stance, time and again : you apparently cannot even remotely accept or agree that there just might be some bad things about weed. Nooooooo, it's the wonder drug! Why, it's even God-approved!! How dare I besmirch the idol that is marijuana! According to you, people that are against weed not only don't know what they're talking about, but they are weedaphobics. :24: What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Peace Maker Tony]

Here's just a quick question for you: what do you think is the more common scenario for drug-users? :

1) they start out on hard drugs, like cocaine, heroin, etc., and then graduate towards pot ........... OR

2) they start out with marijuana, and then graduate towards the hard drugs, like cocaine, heroin, etc.?

This is a​ false dichotomy. There is no graduation from one drug or another. If so you would have included cigarettes. The reason why weed is called a "gateway" drug is because it is illegal. If tobacco were illegal then it would be called a gateway drug. Why? This is because the people that sell weed also sell other harder drugs, thus making it easier for a person to get access to them.

Cigarettes will never be a gateway to anything, because they don't get you stoned and impair you like marijuana does, and they don't affect you in the same ways that pot does. And people who smoke cigs don't do so for the same reasons pot-smokers do, and vice versa. And about graduation, in many cases there absolutely is when it comes to pot.

The reason many people progress from the softer to harder drugs is because the former lose their effect and no longer give them the sensations they crave. This absolutely does not happen in the case of cigs. Unless you want to tell me that people who smoke cigs would start smoking weed if cigarettes were banned!

You obviously have no real understanding of the highly addictive properties in cigs

Think of why people smoke cigs at all , simply because of the way it makes them feel ,,it not being stoned , and even taking a couple tokes of pot does not mean you get stoned even though it has an effect ,Cig smokers smoke because they Need it , can't go without it that is why they smoke 20 to 40 or even 60 cigs per day ,,they crave it, . I notice at every job there is smokers who can't wait for break so they can smoke , like it or not cigs are a drug that creates addiction because it has mind altering effects .People will say they need it to calm their nerves , they need it in order to relax, they can't really relax without it. Many people smoke pot to help go to sleep

Look at the extreme measures most cig smokers will go to to get their fix of nicotine and other chemicals in cigs ...many smokers will lose a lung because of the damage caused by smoking , but will still continue to smoke because they gotta have it because of they way it makes them feel , regardless of how much damage it causes

The government has been growing pot on government pot farms for decades , the government sells pot for medicinal usage ,

Again it is God who will determine if a person used drugs for a legit reason or not and He will be judge ,not you or anyone else

Drugs are used for variety of reasons and pain control and anxiety control are a couple.

There is an epidemic on the misuse of prescription drugs which is far worse than pot

Like I have said before I am not defending smoking pot , but simply presenting that so much hysteria about it as a sin and yet when it comes to smoking cigs that have been proven to cause cancers and cause even death and loss of limbs people who focus their arrows at pot smokers try to nullify smokers of cigs as if it was no big deal when it is

There is medical proof that pot has medicinal benefits which is why the government grows it and sells it

There are no medicinal benefits in smoking cigs

I seemingly am in the minority of people here that have not made this a pot vs. something else debate. Like I've opined, cigs are bad, weed is bad. Legal or illegal doesn't change that. I'm curious why you would say I have no understanding of the highly addictive properties in cigs. I would imagine EVERYONE knows how addictive they are.

Lastly, about your comment on people that "focus their arrows at pot smokers to try to nullify smokers of cigs" : perhaps the reason it appears that pot is being picked on, singled out, etc., compared to cigs, is because, unlike marijuana proponents, nobody is saying cigs are good for you. Everyone knows cigs are bad, so if a smoking group had the audacity to start a campaign saying it was good for you, that group would receive just as many arrows headed their way.

[Guest]

I'm a bit surprised at the amount of time and energy that seem to have been invested in this thread by some to justify Christians smoking marijuana recreationally if it is legalized. That alone should tell us something. I am not attacking anyone in particular, but making an observation.

[Guest yod]

There is evidence of hemp oil actually healing some cancers.

My dad was dying with prostate cancer. They gave him pregnizol and it bloated him up like a bullfrog. Still, to this day, I think it was the drugs that killed him

In some states, he would have been able to (legally) smoke pot for the same pain. He refused that option because it was illegal...and died slowly, painfully.

Would it have saved him? Probably not...but he wouldn't have suffered nearly as much either. I think there are cases where marijuana have benefits for people but it has been so stigmatized that we can't even discuss that aspect of it.

.

[His Ambassador]

Now that marijuana is legal in Colorado and Washington, would it still be wrong for Christians to smoke it in those states?

Smoking pot, just like smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol to excess, gluttony or piercing your lip, nose, tongue, eyebrows, navel or private parts is not being a good steward of the body God gave you to take care of. In that respect I would say it is wrong. But it is not a sin.

[Peace Maker Tony]

A little bit testy, aren't you? Attack the messenger when you don't like the message. You know what, I don't care what weed was called before or after it became legal. I am debating whether or not Christians should use it, while you are just side-tracking and ignoring everything I say. You will believe what you want to believe, and you will keep on idolizing the weed. That's your right, but I believe you will answer to God for promoting drug use.

Christians and drugs. Wow, what a world!! What's next?

This is what I have noticed from people with your stance, time and again : you apparently cannot even remotely accept or agree that there just might be some bad things about weed. Nooooooo, it's the wonder drug! Why, it's even God-approved!! How dare I besmirch the idol that is marijuana! According to you, people that are against weed not only don't know what they're talking about, but they are weedaphobics. :24: What a ridiculous thing to say.

Not being testy at all. I am in no way attacking you but showing you that your knowledge on the subject is lacking. You continue to regurgitate the same ol' rhetoric that has been spoon fed to our society since the "war on drugs", or as it should be called, the governments get rich quick scheme.

But you say that you are debating if a Christian should use it if were to be legal correct? Well, then that's what you should have been debating. You seemed to be adding a bit more to that debate, so I called you on it. Now you if don't agree that a Christian should smoke, I understand, but stop repeating the tired government propaganda that has only lined their pockets.

I am glad that you are not attacking me, neither am I you. And that's fine if you feel the need to call me on something, I have not claimed to be an expert on this, nor do I feel I need to be to have a sound and proper opinion on it. About your opinion on my lack of knowledge on the subject, here's the thing : unlike you, I am not self-absorbed in this subject, it doesn't consume my life like it apparently does yours. So, contrary to what you obviously think, I am NOT "repeating the tired government propaganda". How can I repeat something I have not concerned myself with?

I don't own any books about drugs, or the politics thereof. I don't watch t.v., I don't even read the newspaper. I can't think of a time in the last 20 years where I had a thought about marijuana or any of the issues involved with it. It was not at all on my radar before this thread started. So anything I have said is simply my opinion, based on what I know the bible says about it, based on common sense and intelligence, and coming from personal experience. So to repeat, I am not just copy/pasting info from some government site, or anything like that. Now, regarding government propaganda, your statements aren't propaganda, correct?

One more thing I want to add, knowledge is not wisdom, so you may want to rethink your stance on my lack of knowledge.

Lastly, like walla299 said, I can't imagine why any Christian would be so engrossed in this subject.

Wait, I noticed one more comment you made that I also want to respond to. You asked me : "But you say that you are debating if a Christian should use it if were to be legal correct?". The answer to that is, no, incorrect. I don't know how many times in this thread I have stated that legality is NOT my concern.

Let me put as simply as I can, my stance on drugs.

I do not feel Christians should use drugs, period, and even less promote the use of them. That the government has made it legal in some states has no bearing on my position.

I believe any so-called benefits of using weed are far-outweighed by their deleterious affects. I believe the bible likens drug-use to sorcery. I believe drug-use is a form of rebellion, which is as witchcraft. I belief we, as Christians, are not to imitate the world, so even if 99% of the world was using weed and saying it is okay, we should all the more refuse to do so.

Almost all worldly religions use drugs in their worship, which shows there is a spiritual component to drug-using. Would all these false religions use drugs if they had the God of the bible in their hearts, or is the reason why they have to use drugs in their worship, because they DON'T have the God of the bible in their hearts and are vainly trying to reach Him through fleshly - the only option available to them - worship?

The bible says we are not to offer "strange fire" unto the Lord, as in the biblical examples of Nadab and Abihu. In their case, immediately after they had been dragged outside the camp, the Lord made this statement to Aaron, the father of these two men:

"Do not drink wine or strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you come into the tent of meeting, so that you may not die --- it is a perpetual statute throughout your generations --- so as to make a distinction between the holy and the profane, and between the unclean and the clean" (Leviticus 10:9-10).

Why did God mention wine in the same discussion about improperly approaching the Lord to worship? Well, if you carefully read this account, paying attention to the context, the reason Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire to the Lord, was because they were intoxicated, which impaired their judgment and ability to properly present their offering to God. The point should be obvious, that when your mind is dulled and impaired through intoxication, you are in danger of losing the ability to worship or approach God properly, in His way, and on His terms.

So my next question is - to continue this stream of thought - do you think God would approve of you showing up at church on Sunday in a stoned condition? Why not, if weed is so good and God-approved? Will you answer that question, or just ignore it?

Will you hear the Holy Spirit speak to you when your mind is all doped up? Will you unwittingly offer strange fire to the Lord in such a state?

Lastly, we are also to abstain from all appearances of evil, and you cannot argue that a Christian smoking up and promoting weed doesn't look right to a non-believer. If they can discern that, why can't we? We do not want the world to think we're no different than them in the way we behave.

We are a living tabernacle of God, our lives a living sacrifice to Jesus. So what are we sacrificing to Him when we use drugs?

Anyway, my time is usually limited, and it takes me forever to type these posts, and as such I see no point in my going around and around, repeating myself for nothing. So I think I will leave it that.

[Guest man]

. I think there are cases where marijuana have benefits for people but it has been so stigmatized that we can't even discuss that aspect of it.

[enoob57]

We are here but not at home; we therefore do not make full use of this place because of the truth of this!

Heb 5:14

14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is,

those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to

discern both good and evil.

NKJV

I remember my beloved parents that said it is not good, in which I listened not to their

words... I was wrong for the Lord has grown me up

1 Co 7:31

31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the

form of this world is passing away.

NKJV

simply how will help showing Christ in us to others???

Love, Steven

[Peace Maker Tony]

I have said once before that the discussion on "pharmakeia" needs to have it's own thread. I will continue to hide all responses to this topic and will close the thread if people do not adhere to this.

Yes, before this post I had already gotten your point about starting a new thread, and I haven't used the word since then, nor do I see the point in doing so again.When I first mentioned it I just didn't foresee how bringing up a biblical Hebrew word in a (Christian) thread about drugs could be a problem, nor how that word was somehow unrelated to the discussion.

We do have those who use it for medical reasons and they are not witches or sorcerers.

I invite you to point me to a post where I said or implied that medical use of weed is sorcery. This thread is not about medical use, it is about whether or not Christians should use marijuana. So rather than me or anyone else having to stop talking about "sorcery" in this thread, don't you think maybe it's the people who keep bringing up medical use in a thread that isn't about that, should be the ones to have to start a new thread?