Legislator will introduce gun bill in Congress

[nebula]

A friend posted this on Facebook. I thought it appropriate for this discussion:

From Ravi Zacharias

Here, I would like to address our political leaders and media elite: You may personally have the moral strength to restrict your ideas to mere words but many who listen to you do not. To take the most sacred privilege of democracy and transform it into the language of aggression plays right into the hands of hate-mongers. This is not the language of a civil society or of wise leadership. It is not the ethos of a culture of co-existence. It is not the verbal coinage with which we can spend our way into the future. Our political rhetoric is fraught with division, hate, blame, and verbal murder. Our young are listening. Remember that what you win them with is what you win them to.

As for the entertainment world, what does one even say at a time like this? Calling for gun control and then entertaining the masses with bloodshed is only shifting the locus from law to entertainment. Do our entertainers ever pause to ask what debased values emerge from their stories? The death of decency is audible and visible in what passes as movie entertainment and political speech. This is the same culture that wishes to take away Nativity scenes and Christmas carols from our children. God is evicted from our culture and then He is blamed for our carnages. America is lost on the high seas of time, without chart or compass. The storms that await us will sink this nation beyond recognition if we do not awaken to the rapid repudiation of the values that shaped this nation. The handwriting is on the wall. Freedom is not just destroyed by its retraction. It is destroyed even more painfully by its abuse.

There is one more thing. It is so obvious but is seldom ever addressed. All these recent mass murders have been done by men. Many of them young men, yes, even mere boys. Jonesboro, Columbine, Virginia Tech, now Newtown. Is there something within our culture that doesn’t know how to raise strength with dignity and respect? Is this how boys are meant to be? From bloodletting in hockey games while thousands cheer to savagery in school shootings while thousands weep, we must ask ourselves what has gone wrong with us men? Where are the role models in the home? Is knocking somebody down the only test left for strength? Is there no demonstration now of kindness, gentleness, courtesy, and respect for our fellow human beings? One young man on death row in Angola Prison told me that he started his carnage as a teenager. Now in his thirties with the end of the road in sight, he reached his hand out to me and asked me to pray with him. Life was lost at the altar of power and strength.

The Bible only speaks of one remedy for this: the transformation of the heart by making Christ the center. Those who mock the simplicity of the remedy have made evil more complex and unexplainable. Every heart has the potential for murder. Every heart needs a redeemer. That is the message of Christmas. The world took that child and crucified Him. But by his triumph over death He brings life to our dead souls and begins the transformation within. Unto us a child is born and He shall save us from our sins.

http://www.rzim.org/rzim-news/tragedy-at-newtown/

[Fez]

I still don't understand something. I live in a very violent country as well. There are a lot of gun deaths, although that is improving since the stricter gun control laws take effect.

But even so, with the guns, the shootings, the mentally ill, etc, South Africans don't walk into schools and massacre children. There have been a few isolated incidents of pupils shooting each other or teachers, but massacres, no.

I think the USA is looking in the wrong direction when it comes to the slaughter in schools. There has to be another reason for it, there just has to be.

I don't pretend to know what it is, but something is different concerning school shootings in the USA.

[JustinM]

RG: "Why does having an opinion or voice about something make it a "sacred cow"?"

I reject the notion that my support of the 2nd amendment is idolatry.

RG: "do you feel that any law that limits our freedom of speech is also overstepping Constitutional authority?"

Not the subject of THIS discussion.

RG: "we have rule and regulations for many things, why not guns."

We already have enough rules and regulations concerning guns.

RG: "But if you wish...yes we agree that the world needs Jesus. Not much of a discusion after that, so what is the point of a discussion forum if we are not going to discuss things?"

By your own admission you stated that the world needs Jesus. Since it is severely lacking in that, people need to be able to protect themselves from the world. We all already agreed that the problem in the US, and you even acknowledged it, isn't a gun problem it is a cultural problem. So, more gun laws aren't going to change the culture. Making it more difficult, if not impossible, for law abiding citizens to protect themselves and the innocent from these people will only encourage the gunmen to escalate the atrocities. Next time it might be a hundred, or 300, or 1000. They will not stop, unless they know they have little chance of success wherever they go.

This next statement is not directed at you RG. As adults, specifically men, we have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent from the evil doings of men. If you won't protect them, (such as hiding under your shool desk while the children are being slaughtered) you are a coward, and are not living up to God's expectations. There's a reason He equipped us with larger stature and more strength than women.

[redwing]

yes, of course lets blame the gun, taking guns away from criminals will stop people from killing people. While were at it, lets make murder illegal. Wait, it already is, people who kill people dont care about the law, what makes you think theyre going to care about gun laws? and even if you somehow take the gun out of their hand (which is next to impossible) I got news for you, killers dont need guns. hitler used cyanide gas. The taliban used box cutters and airplanes. Timothy Mcveigh used fertilizer. Taking guns out of the hands of the innocent will not cut down on violence. It will just take away our ability to defend ourselves and give an already corrupt government more control.

Exactly :thumbsup:

[other one]

I still don't understand something. I live in a very violent country as well. There are a lot of gun deaths, although that is improving since the stricter gun control laws take effect.

But even so, with the guns, the shootings, the mentally ill, etc, South Africans don't walk into schools and massacre children. There have been a few isolated incidents of pupils shooting each other or teachers, but massacres, no.

I think the USA is looking in the wrong direction when it comes to the slaughter in schools. There has to be another reason for it, there just has to be.

I don't pretend to know what it is, but something is different concerning school shootings in the USA.

Fez, they have regularly been going into places where weapons are not allowed. The older ones have gone to malls and theaters, and the young ones to schools..... but they all seem to choose places where no one else has weapons to stop them from doing there thing....

How can they kill children...... I don't understand...... and that's most likely a good thing....

[JustinM]

RG: "Why does having an opinion or voice about something make it a "sacred cow"?"

I reject the notion that my support of the 2nd amendment is idolatry.

from reading your post you seem to put more trust in your guns than your God. sounds like idolatry to me.

As adults, specifically men, we have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent from the evil doings of men. If you won't protect them, you are a coward, and are not living up to God's expectations.

Let me explain something to you. I spent 20 years on active duty in the Marine Corps. I have raised and fired my weapon at another human being in the line of duty.

I spent most of my adult life protecting the weak and the innocent as a Marine, doing so while you were still in middle school. I still do so now even though I am retired from the Marine Corps. But I do not need to walk around with a gun to be able to do that, I am very capable without one.

Just because you can type on an internet forum does not give you the right, or even the privilege to tell me I am not living up to God's expectations.

This next statement is not directed at you RG. As adults, specifically men, we have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent from the evil doings of men. If you won't protect them, (such as hiding under your shool desk while the children are being slaughtered) you are a coward, and are not living up to God's expectations. There's a reason He equipped us with larger stature and more strength than women.

Next time, you should include the whole paragraph. . .RG

Yes, I am still at Osan, no, I do not have a shotgun and handgun in my apartment. I did before I came here, and I will when I get to my next assignment.

[JustinM]

I put my trust in a lot of things, doesn't mean I am an idolator. I put my trust in a commercial airline in that it will safely transport me where I need to go. I am not idolizing the aircraft. I trust that my brakes on my motorcycle will work when I need them to, it doesn't mean I am idolizing my motorcycle, or the brake assembly. There is nothing wrong with trusting objects to keep you from injury. The bible is full of verses of shields and swords and bows and arrows protect people. A gun is a modern equivalent of a bow and arrow. What are the physics of these devices? They use energy to send a projectile in a straight path accurately towards a target.

As we said, US is not a Christian Nation, so that means Americans, as a large segment of our society, have no faith or trust in God, so they have put their faith and trust in something else. Some choose guns, others choose the state/federal government law enforcement official that may or may not come to their aid in time to protect/save their life.

[JustinM]

RG: "Why does having an opinion or voice about something make it a "sacred cow"?"

I reject the notion that my support of the 2nd amendment is idolatry.

from reading your post you seem to put more trust in your guns than your God. sounds like idolatry to me.

As adults, specifically men, we have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent from the evil doings of men. If you won't protect them, you are a coward, and are not living up to God's expectations.

Let me explain something to you. I spent 20 years on active duty in the Marine Corps. I have raised and fired my weapon at another human being in the line of duty.

I spent most of my adult life protecting the weak and the innocent as a Marine, doing so while you were still in middle school. I still do so now even though I am retired from the Marine Corps. But I do not need to walk around with a gun to be able to do that, I am very capable without one.

Just because you can type on an internet forum does not give you the right, or even the privilege to tell me I am not living up to God's expectations.

This next statement is not directed at you RG. As adults, specifically men, we have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent from the evil doings of men. If you won't protect them, (such as hiding under your shool desk while the children are being slaughtered) you are a coward, and are not living up to God's expectations. There's a reason He equipped us with larger stature and more strength than women.

Next time, you should include the whole paragraph. . .RG

Yes, I am still at Osan, no, I do not have a shotgun and handgun in my apartment. I did before I came here, and I will when I get to my next assignment.

I just hit the quote button, the fact you went back after the fact and added to your post does not change its meaning. you should be careful who you call a coward in the future.

Actually you posted your comment about 20 minutes after I changed it. I didn't change it after your post. Maybe you hit quote before your page refreshed.

[JustinM]

And yes, if a grown man chooses to hide and do nothing while women and children are being slaughtered, he is a coward.

[GoldenEagle]

Time for a break. Closed for review.