Where are the prophets?

[Sevenseas]

Seriously, that's pride? You kidding me? I gave it because that is exactly what the Office looks like in Operation. It's not where each stand up and take turns giving Prophecy, that's for any believer.

One more thing Mike, as the above is part of your response to my post. I never mentioned pride

That is not what I addressed....my concern is voiced in the post above this one. READ it...I'm NOT discussing anyone's pride issues

You should know I live my life 'in the real'...I have not just seen it. Are you real? Then address the problems of people chasing after

power and the never ending so called word from the Lord and that fact that people involved in this type of ministry, unless they

are on the platform, usually have little growth in Bible knowledge, but instead pursue a feely meely course of emotion and error...

which is WHY they are always at the front needing prayer instead of being able to pray for others

The gifts are for building up.....not for feeling good...well, here's some of the more I wanted to say....but I digress...let's deal with the

post above this one in a logical and thorough manner without emotional highs and lows or exaggerated stock in trade answers

[Guest]

So what events haven't happened yet? Revelations?

Daniel

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Daniels 7:23

Matthew

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Matthew 24:21-22

1 Thessalonians

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Jude

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jude 1:14-16

And On And On And On And.....

[Guest man]

[Sevenseas]

Anything good playing? I'll check the papers....

[Sevenseas]

Thanks Mike...I will get back a little later. Thanks again.

[Sevenseas]

From my post 118:

I'm not asking someone else, I'm just asking Mike. He and I have had some heated debating but now I would like to

see how this is handled...not for judgement, but because I would some thinking done and some reasonable answers

given . I want to know how things are being processed and why.

This was addressed to Mike.

Edited January 10, 2013 by GoldenEagle
{{{ Removed hidden quote. My changes in bold. }}}

[GoldenEagle]

All,

I have cleaned up this thread. If anyone has a disagreement please keep it civil in a PM. Keep in mind that the ToS applies to PM's as well.

Please debate the subject and not the person.

It is possible to discuss and/or disagree on a subject without insulting the person you are debating with. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are trying to attack you as a person.

Do not insult others. Consider what you post before clicking the "post" button. Respect each other in the love of God!

Click here for the full WCF ToS (Terms of Service and Board Rules) to see what is expected on WCF.

God bless,

GE

[Fez]

I asked the same thing as GE does above a ways back and all I got was..

Fez, there are prophets, and this type of dialog between Cobalt and I would be normal considering past threads. No worries.

Which condones the very thing I was warning against, personal attacks, while sneaking in a comment about prophets in the first few words that was not necessary.

This thread is close to dying an ignoble death. Please take heed of GE's post prior to this one.

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas

So Mike, what DO you consider your gifts to be? Do you think you have revolving gifts? (not trying to be funny) (tons of scripture, and so on)

I'll just type in a diff color for ease in reading and again thanks for taking the time to answer me, because, while you know I believe in the gifts of the Spirit,

I have seen some very bad abuse of these gifts and the fallout in people's lives, so I think it is very important to touch on those subjects as well if we

are going to say "I believe the gifts are for today." This, is prob as serious as I can get about anything, so...and I like to stretch how I think and I like getting

others to stretch too...and re-examine scripture, because, unless we are in a time warp, then we should be progressing and growing in Christ and in our

understanding...of what is already written...as, no new outside the Bible revelations that would amount to scripture in another place and time (I believe you

have stated that you agree with that statement, so, here goes....

Scriptures: I gave the example of Jesus and the women with many Husbands. She told her something that only He would know that got her attention. Let's be fair here. The Word does not give a guide on being a Pastor, Prophet, Evangelist, I mean we know Philip and Timothy were Evangelist, but not much is said about what they did. We have a whole lot of situations where Words of Knowledge, and wisdom, and healing were done, but connecting specific gifts to a specific Pastor, teach, evangelist, Apostle, Prophet ministry would be extremely difficult. Do prophets prophesies? It appears according to Paul's direction to the church that the gift is distributed to many believers as the Spirit wills. So we can't say that prophets just stand around and give prophecy.

I agree her ears perked up and Jesus had her attention. "Come, see a man who told me everything I've ever done! Could he possibly be the Messiah?" John 4:29

So yes, I would conclude that the Holy Spirit can and does use a word of knowledge to get people's attention, to help them, to aid the person in whom the

gift is operating to better understand the person they are ministering to...and so on. I have experienced that myself in counselling or even being part of the

worship team, or worship leader, or in prayer etc.

You may remember that in another thread, there was some debate about new revelation and illumination and I think we all pretty much agreed with

what Shiloh stated in his post # 22 from that thread:

People today confuse revelation with illumination. There is no new "revelation," meaning that there is no new information about God being revealed that has not been previously revealed in the Word of God.

God is revealing more about Himself in deeper ways through His word and the power of the Holy Spirit, but that is not "revelation." That is illumination.

If there is new revelation about God that has not been previously revealed through His word, how would we be able to test such "revelation" to make sure it lines up with Scripture??? If God reveals something about Himself and we can find it corroborated with the Bible it is not "revelation."[/quote]

So, how do YOU differentiate between prophesy / word of knowledge? Are you saying that you are prophesying or is that a word of knowledge you are experiencing?

I believe that the prophetic ministry now, is not the same as the OT prophets...What do you believe regarding that?

I disagree with these people who call themselves prophets: Rik Joyner, the horrific Todd Bentley, Paula White, Benny Hinn (who has given a number of very

significant prophecies that have NOT come to pass) Kim Clement and many many more but generally of the same ilk.

Here is a sample prophecy given in 2003 to New Zealand & Australia by a Rev. Hansen:

You are cursed Australia and New Zealand. You are cursed with your own words and lifestyles that reject my son Jesus Christ in all you say and do.

Now get ready for my anger; my arm will smite you with plagues, with residue of crisis and residue of war.

Nuclear fallout will drop on you as the dew falls on the ground and you will cry out in anguish; only your cries will yet not be toward me. So, I will continue in my love to allow crisis and plagues and fallout to touch you.

This is one type of prophecy being given...where the 'prophet' declares God's plan to let everyone have it and then we have the following, an archetype

of prophecy given in North America (basically US) where we are told that there will be a great 'awakening'...great spiritual refreshing and everything will

be just hunky dory.

One such group is the Kansas City Prophets:

the Kansas City prophets who brought grandiose claims that a "new breed" of super prophets were beginning to arrive on planet earth who would change the world forever.

These so-called prophets were a group of men that coalesced around a church known as the Kansas City Fellowship, pastored by Mike Bickle, that attracted a following of other likeminded churches in that region. They argued that God was spearheading a new revival from their churches, and that he was restoring the office of prophet. Just as other "prophets" we discussed in these pages, yesterday's Kansas City stock could have it both ways. They could hear from God, and speak forth God's words, prophesying of great events soon to transpire on planet earth. And they could have flipped a coin as to whether what God allegedly told them would actually come true. Often they didn't come true.

These folks are still around, still prophesying and still promising that the best is yet to come

One such person, Kim Clement, considers himself and is considered by many, to be a Prophet to the nation of Israel AND the US even though he

hails from South Africa...he now makes his home in the US and travels extensively...singing, dancing, teaching and prophesying like crazy

Here are some of his doozies: Prophecy given by Kim Clement in Utica New York, January 10, 2004

Al Qaeda shall be exposed shortly. There has been a threat that has come from them and there has been a threat spoken out by Osama bin Laden that within 35 days the USA shall experience a catastrophic event. But even as I brought out the other rogue from the hole in the ground, in the same period that bin Laden predicted catastrophe against this nation, I shall bring him forth, I shall raise him out of his own hiding place, and I will bring him to a place of accountability.”

35 days came and went and went and went.....of course bin Laden eventually was caught and killed, but not in 2004 or even close. FAILED PROPHECY...did

that make anyone stop and say hold on? No No... Clement offered this instead:

Not once did I say that the 35-day period would begin from January 10 or 12. It clearly says that as bin Laden put a time limit on his attack on the USA, God has placed that same time period upon him. However, there is a deadline and from what I can gather from the utterance, Easter is the time to celebrate this victory.

On March 5th he wrote: "We do know from this word that the specific time period would be linked to March 11 and Easter. We also know that God has indicated that OBL will be uncovered. In baited expectation, we look forward to the season ahead of us, anticipating the wonderful things that God has promised for both our personal lives, the nations of the earth, and specifically the United States of America."

If that makes your head spin, you obviously have no faith. (I don't think Clement's response even makes sense)

First it was 35 days from either Jan 10 or 12. That would have put the bin Laden event around Feb 14-16 2004. Nothing happened. Then it was March 11 and Easter. Apparently the god that Clement hears from cannot read a calendar because Easter 2004 was on April 11 not March 11. But something important did happen on March 11. Do you know what it was?

On March 11 2004 almost 200 people died when terrorists bombed several trains in Madrid. Was this the "beginning of the end of major terrorist leaders and movements” as Clement had claimed?

Note: in 2004, Clement (on TBN as were many of his prophecies so the record is clear) stated that terrorists were basically no longer that big a threat

I guess someone forgot to mention that to them.

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

So, how much grace is working re the above prophets...are they prophets? I think that many people follow just such as I have listed above, or come to mind when they hear the word prophet. Someone is listening, because they have millions of followers. And donations to match

If 3 out of 10 (and that's generous) of their so called prophetic utterances come true, are they still prophets? Or are they lucky guessers? If you

want to play the Old Testament prophet game, shouldn't you be judged like an OT prophet?

​What do you think of these fellows and the occasional woman prophetess like Paul White? What is their function? How do they hold up in light

of scripture with failure after failure to achieve fulfillment of their words?

You see, it's fine to agree on spiritual gifts operating, but then the discussion begins on how we see them operating and why is there such a vast

array of false utterances and why don't people just quit going to these services? Just how bad is that itch anyway?

Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

So from my standpoint. The Lord asked me to pastor a Sunday morning Church and said this. "At times the prophet office will come available to you to help the people. Recognize that anointing and step into it when it comes."

Is it really the prophetic office, because it seems to me that would be a permanent calling if there was one. How would you describe a word of knowledge?

So, in my mind I figured I best concentrate on just teaching for Sunday Morning. The only gift I focused on was that teaching anointing. I would say before service, I am anointed to teach, I teach only what I hear, I correct myself if I speak wrongly, on words of power and right things come from my mouth. My words change hearts, they draw people close to Jesus. I am never left without anything to say, I always know the right things to say.

I would think that if someone is operating in a gift, it simply operates...I have to say, that I doubt anyone is operating in their gift (s) 100% of the time. That,

would be exhausting and I don't see that in Scripture either...even Jesus took time off

That is what I would say to myself before the praise and worship ended. When I stepped up, I would say something like Praise God everyone, or talk about how good God is to get into that teaching anointing and stir the gift up.

That was in my mind Sevenseas, that is how I approached all the services. I just believed that if I was up, then the Holy Spirit would be ready to help.

The few times the Prophetic office anointing came was normally at the end of the service, or a couple times in the middle. I noticed the change in the anointing and I would just supernaturally know things about certain people or see them like in a mini vision. With that the Holy Spirit was able to get help to individuals that had specific fears, needs, concerns, or needed turned around. It was never something that was a surprise to them. I never anticipated this coming, counted on it, or sought it. It had to be real, and the information had to be right, so I kept myself far from it as possible.

Well I will have to accept that you state it has to be real...because that IS what you are saying. So, I will accept that. However, and don't whack me now,

what if (scary thought) it was real but not right? Do you think that can happen? I am not saying that is applied to you...I am just asking the question here...

do you think something can be real...very very real....but not of God and people accept it as being from God nonetheless and it has the appearance

of being from God and yet, later on, because of the fallout and the problems people begin having, you learn it was NOT God...just real, not right.

Hope that is not too confusing.......

That is how I personally looked at it, How I seen it operate in other ministry's. As for healing lines, or stuff like that, I never once did that. Had I got a unction from the Holy Spirit to do so, I would have.

The Apostles did call out certain people for healing and we see people healed in the NT after the book of Acts, but I do not think we see what Jesus did?

We read that the elders of the (a) church are called to pray for one who is sick...now that is definitely not always done!

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. James 5:14

People who claim to have some ginormous healing ministry are trying to operate like Jesus did...is that really scriptural? Really?

Also the Lord never called me a Pastor, or a Prophet. The only thing he has ever told me is that I am anointing you to teach, and that is the only gift I have put my faith into, when it's time to teach.

By putting your faith into, do you mean you have faith that gift will be in operation or do you mean you have faith in the gift?

Jesus Is Lord.

[Floatingaxe]

Jesus is the last Prophet. The last prophecy is the Book of Revelation. Today, the only prophecy concerns individuals, not nations, nor the World.

Well, Jesus is not the last prophet. He sent His Spirit to us to gift us with the ability to prophesy. Prophecy is not what most people think it is, It is not the mere telling forth of future events, but it is also speaking the word of God with the anointing, with God's authority, such that it brings His personal message to bear upon the hearer. It is called RHEMA.