Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
firestormx

Logos and Rhema

Recommended Posts

John 1:14

And the Word (Logos ) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (Rhema) of God.

I've been doing a study of the differance between logos and rhema. On the affect it has on verses like romans 10:17. The word Logos never seems to be used in referance to the entirety of scripture, or in referance to all of the written word. Where as Rhema in some places does. Both meanings have some form of utterance and saying or spoken in them. They both have more meaning to them, but I'm just trying to keep it simple here. So, Why is this study so important to me? Why have I posted this?

I take the verse I quoted in John to properly mean that the entire word of God is in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the embodiment of the word. Most people I have ever talk to, would say that the verse in Romans states that faith comes by hearing the Written word of God, what we call the bible. As we read the bible and study it and hear a minister preach on it, so comes our faith. But the more I study this out, the more I'm beginning to think that is tradition and it's not entirely correct. It's missing a important point. Our faith comes by hearing Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith, or the Living Word of God, by whatever means he uses. Whether it's a pastor on sunday morning, personal study of the bible. The Holy Spirit Illuminating the bible. Simply reading the bible its self isn't enough. We must be connected to the living Word and hearing him which is Jesus Christ. The bible states that the natural mind or the flesh can't understand the word of God. The word just don't make sense to the flesh. So there has to be more to the Romans verses than just reading the bible ourselves or hearing someone else read the bible.

So what do you think?

Is just reading the bible with out a connection to the Living Word enough for faith?

What do you understand as the difference between Logos and Rhema?

Firestormx

Joseph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi firestormx,

i believe since faith comes by hearing the word of God, we are drawn closer to God and drawn to have more faith by hearing a preacher or reading the Bible.

but no, i don't believe one can read the Scriptures and receive abundant understanding without the Holy Spirit living within.

i believe Logos as used in the verse you share, is meant to specifically convey the truth of the pre-existence of Christ. this among other signs and wonders, is used to isolate the main point that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

the book of John displays interesting parallels to such truths as found in the other Gospels.

i thank you and thank God for the interesting parallel you have discovered here, and it has broadened my understanding of the Word.

and so in Romans 10:17, we should ask how is it that we hear the living Word of God?

are we speaking only of an external, physical listening? no. do we understand God's speech by our own understanding? no.

is the hearing that brings faith that of a spiritual discernment? yes.

as you said, the Holy Spirit must illuminate these things to the reader, or the listener.

and for what it's worth, Rhema is synonymous with Logos.

love to you...

Edited by BlessedByTheBest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

I honestly stumbled across this, when I was trying to make sure I was reading the Romans verse in context. It was then I realized there was more to this verse than I had thought about before. To properly have a true interputation you have to put it in context. Whatever the proper truth of that verse, it has to apply not only to us today, but also to the christians at rome that paul was writing to. The first century christians in rome didn't have a bible like we have today. They were hated and revieled by not only the romans, but also the jews. As were all christians at the time. So there exposer to even the old testament scripture was limited at best. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, and there ability to acess the word (or the bible as we call it), was so limited, then there has to be more to this verse and what it means than just reading the bible. Which is also what got me into looking at the differance in the words Logos and Rhema. Anyone wishing to expound on this ( weather for or against don't matter ), it would be appreciated.

God Bless

Firestormx

Joseph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I believe God for a Lamborghini? Confess one and have what I say? There is a believe in heart part, and for that I would need to hear a Rhema word from the Holy Spirit. If I had not heard, then there can be no faith.

Jesus Is Lord.

Forgive me for asking, but were you being serious with your question or sarcastic? Do you believe the doctrine of believe and recieve it? Or were you trying to make a point I missed? What does that have to do with hearing Christ the living Word, the author and finisher of our faith? Also, what is your understanding on the differences and similarities between a Rhema word and a Logos word. Thank you and God Bless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Can I believe God for a Lamborghini? Confess one and have what I say? There is a believe in heart part, and for that I would need to hear a Rhema word from the Holy Spirit. If I had not heard, then there can be no faith.

Jesus Is Lord.

Forgive me for asking, but were you being serious with your question or sarcastic? Do you believe the doctrine of believe and recieve it? Or were you trying to make a point I missed? What does that have to do with hearing Christ the living Word, the author and finisher of our faith? Also, what is your understanding on the differences and similarities between a Rhema word and a Logos word. Thank you and God Bless

All My Lamborghini's Live In Texas (And Around The World, Zoom Zoom :) )

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:15-16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Romans 1 tells us that we can see God in nature. If we exercise the faith given there, He will lead us into more truth in the fullness

of the Bible. Romans 1:20. Saving faith is found in the revelation of God in the Bible. For 1500 years the Word was spoken because

the written word was in the hands of very few. But I am told that the Bible is still most meaningful if we read it aloud. I believe that

when God enlightens His word to me and I hear Him speaking to me, that is a Rhema. God does not contradict His written Word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

I honestly stumbled across this, when I was trying to make sure I was reading the Romans verse in context. It was then I realized there was more to this verse than I had thought about before. To properly have a true interputation you have to put it in context. Whatever the proper truth of that verse, it has to apply not only to us today, but also to the christians at rome that paul was writing to. The first century christians in rome didn't have a bible like we have today. They were hated and revieled by not only the romans, but also the jews. As were all christians at the time. So there exposer to even the old testament scripture was limited at best. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, and there ability to acess the word (or the bible as we call it), was so limited, then there has to be more to this verse and what it means than just reading the bible. Which is also what got me into looking at the differance in the words Logos and Rhema. Anyone wishing to expound on this ( weather for or against don't matter ), it would be appreciated.

God Bless

Firestormx

Joseph

Great question!

I'll try to give an explanation....

In Greek, just as in any other language, many words carry a common synonymous meaning that may not at first glance seem readily apparent. For example, in American English the word "blue" may mean: a color, an emotional state, a type of music, or a phase of the moon.

If I say: "I'm blue today...", hopefully no one thinks that I'm reflecting a certain wavelength of light in the infrared spectrum. :biggrinflip:

Take that same statement though...bury it for say 1000 years, translate it into an as-yet unknown language in another culture; and I think you'll see the difficulty that would arise in trying to understand what I meant...It would take some digging.

So it is with any ancient language.

So then, let's take a look at the word: Logos...briefly about 500 BC a stoic philosopher named Heraclitus assigned a meaning to this word in his attempt to explain why all change was orderly. Heraclitus wondered why change didn't become chaotic, and his answer was that all change was controlled by the mind or reason of God, which he termed "the Logos". Once the stoics caught hold of this they never let it go...even expanding the definition to include the inferred meaning of "substance".

By the first century, Logos had the universally understood synonymous meaning of: the mind/reason/substance of God.

In John 1:1...In the beginning was the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) and the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) was with God, and the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) was God.

John 1:14 And the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) became flesh and dwelt among us....

Now Rhema didn't have such a deep connotation (except among Hellenistic Jews..a long explanation). However when taken in context of the passage it makes perfect sense. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word (rhema) of God."

One most certainly can not hear a written word, unless that word is spoken. This is an admonition to "preach the word" as it were.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit.

Edited by Mcgyver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By GregoryB
      Dear Lord, in Jesus Christ's name I pray.   Welcome Holy Spirit, embody this nation, government and military. God bless Donald Trump, keep him protected, helped and leading your nation strong and free. God bless Justin Trudeau, bend his will to yours, humble him and teach him what he needs to know of You. Thank you Lord for the peace talks in Korea! This is an appreciated answer to so many pleading prayers! We pray for the same peace and understanding in Cameroon, please have mercy and save its people. Please forgive us of all our sins. Especially excuse evil where we oppose, mock and vilify You. Please Lord, we know not what we do. Bless and revive us Lord, thy kingdom come. Put us through the painful process of cleansing this world, nation, generation and church of backsliding, sleepiness, enemies within, blasphemy, watering down of God's truth, word and law. Prune and throw such chaff into the lake of fire. Have us accept and cherish your free gift of salvation and eternal life immediately through your Son's sacrifice in place of our sin debt. May we all pray for this in our life now! Heal, restore and revive your body of Christ saved to do good works in the Lord. May we be light, salt and disciples to this desperate world. Hallelujah, he is risen, he is risen indeed!   I pray this sincerely for all lost, enemies and loved ones in Jesus Christ's name, amen!   GregoryB
    • By GregoryB
       
      I read the entire "Christian's going to hell" thread and was about to jump in with my own reply.  I did not realize the limitations of this forum section.  I suppose that is fine.  I got a lot out of what was discussed but still struggle with some of it.  I get all the points of views, proof, beliefs and such.  I am not trying to call out or trap anyone.  I am a baby Christian and have honest questions for clarification.  I pray we can all come to an agreement on God's word and truth.
      I was hoping we could base the discussion on Matthew 25 ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25&version=NIV ) and how it related to the thread I could not jump in on.  My question is this.  Does Matthew 25 add or take away from any and all posts made there by *everyone*? 
      I have more specific questions too.  The ten virgins for starters, do they not represent Christians covered in the blood of Jesus?  I am not clear on the oil in their lamps as well.  I suppose it could relate to my above general question.
      I am wrestling with all this.  I believe I am a born again Christian.  I have faith in my salvation.  I am concerned about others I care for and love.  I will elaborate and add more enquiries as this thread develops.  May opportunities open to know and understand the Holy Trinity better.  Be well, content and helpful in the Lord. 
    • By GregoryB
      Prayer Time Travel - 
      The Holy Bible records time.  The Bible has a beginning to end, Genesis to Revelation.  God is outside time.  He has no beginning or end.  We have a beginning with no end.  We start in time, then escape it, get outside it with no end.  Many prayers are throughout the Holy Bible affecting past, present and future, from whoever's perspective.  Jesus Christ is!  God is the great "I am," not was nor will be.  
      Jesus prays for all believers.
      20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
      - John 17:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
      Revelation in the Bible affects the past to us now and beyond to the beginning of time, Genesis. A prayer in my future affects me and my now and even my past. My prayer now about my past affects my future. I am affected by my past, present and future, now. I am not an isolated silo. We cause ripple effects, everything affects everything, everything matters. Christ's life giving water is thee all encompassing most important matter.
      I lost my wallet. I decided not to fear or worry. I accepted it and let it go. Eventually I decided to pray about it, relatively long after the fact. Later, a policeman called for me to come get it from him. It had been been discovered moments after I lost it and immediately turned in. A beat cop had happened to be there. The officer had been swamped with work, so had notified and met with me a week later, having been so busy. That was my time traveling prayer eureka moment. At the time, my prayer was only to help process, comfort and put the whole matter in God's hands, whatever His will. I was happy with it and had left it at that. Yay and hallelujah, yet another reason for prayer! Now I realized and believed my prayer had actually traveled back in time. God's reach and power is anywhere anytime. He answered my prayer by changing my past, my reality and my future. What was lost was now found in time.
      December 18, 2016, I prayed a short, simple to the point prayer. I met and surrendered to Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord. What I prayed then and there took effect in the past on the cross at Calvary. Jesus Christ was sacrificed for me and my sin debt. That past was affected by prayer in its future. That present took effect in the past and affected the future until the end of time. Then, now and then, I pray in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
      - John 1:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
    • By zmmartin
      God speaks to us through His word.  
      According to  Randy Mann, "Paul tells us that God is the divine author of the all the Scriptures (2 Tim. 3:16). Scripture is God's revelation of Himself and His plan of redemption, which He accomplishes through Jesus Christ (Luke 24:25-27)."
      In Psalm 19 it says: 
      "The heavens declare the glory of God,
          and the sky above proclaims his handiwork."
      Also, I like this statement found in Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 1:
      "Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased."
      Sources:
      https://www.lifeway.com/en/articles/sermon-god-speaks-through-his-word-psalm-19
      http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
    • By Omegaman 3.0

      The words might be vertical, horizontal, or diagonal, running frontwards or backwards. The 31 words in the puzzle, are from Romans Chapter One, in the King James Version. That  chapter is produced below, and the words are highlighted in yellow.
      Greetings to the Saints in Rome
      1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to bethe Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
      7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
      Paul's Desire to Visit Rome
      (1 Thessalonians 2:17-20)
      8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; 10Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. 11For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. 13Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
      I am Not Ashamed of the Gospel
      16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
      God's Wrath against Sin
      (Jeremiah 6:10-21; Jeremiah 25:15-33; Jonah 1:4-10; Acts 27:13-26)
      18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
      24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
      26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
      28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
×