If the Holy Spirit is leading, why do we have so many...

[L10]

A simple question that has probably been thrown around Protestant circles for a few hundred years. Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive? Why imparticular do we have such a huge difference in Arminian and Calvinist believers? Would the Holy Spirit not want us to know with clarity what is absolute? Or, is it that God does know all, who will be saved, if grace is resistible...., but He needs for us to drop our own pride. It is almost like liking opposing teams in a super bowl, and the person is not going to change their mind.

I have participated in many discussions that were sorta controversial, and shared scriptures, early manuscript translations, and many other tools to get to come conclusions. Some people come to a conclusion for Occum's razor (the least amount of discussion point points to a clearer one) and then they stick by that. Those people are probably fine, but they refuse to look deeper into what God may want them to look into.

Why does Nomran Geisler see 2 points to Calvinism, while Michael Horton or Charles Stanley see 5 points?

Why is Stephen Ashby sharing a reformed Arminian view that share penal substitution, which is in arms with Wesley followers?

Why do some people insist that the tribulation will not occur until all Christians are raptured, and others share mid Trib, post trib?

Would the Great Comforter not find it a great help to clear up these messes, and to bring about a dropping of our spiritual pride; simply to help us to understand some of these important truths?

If you don't believe they are important, you are free to share that.

Please, discern that I fully Believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me, and give me conviction, understanding, and I am not putting Him down one bit. I am asking a question that should challenge our minds though, and maybe even our very sin of pride. God Bless, and be gentle if you can

[gdemoss]

Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive?

All questions have already been answered, it is about knowing where to find the answer to the question that is being asked.

Eze 14:1-5 ¶ Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them? Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols; That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.

For this cause, people find themselves unable to reason with others and bring them into their understanding of the Word of God but end up in endless and fruitless debates that continue in a circular nature that end in death and not life.

One must possess the 'key of knowledge' to unlock the mysteries of God and the bible.

Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

The disobedient want to know everything but they cannot except they obey what is given.

Isa 28:9-10 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

There are those who sincerely desire the milk of the Word that they may grow thereby and there are those who are reluctantly doing what little they believe they must do in order to 'make it', especially in the 'believe only' crowd. God is not one to be mocked.

2Th 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Those who do not believe the truth are they who have pleasure in unrighteousness. They love things that are evil and twist the truth so that evil becomes good and good evil. These very people believe without any doubt that Jesus is going to open an effectual door for them into the kingdom but will be rejected instead.

Be careful how ye hear. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

[enoob57]

Please, discern that I fully Believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me, and give me conviction, understanding, and I am not putting Him down one bit. I am asking a question that should challenge our minds though, and maybe even our very sin of pride. God Bless, and be gentle if you can

Actually the answer lies in the effectual intimacy with God... we cannot have of God and have of this world!

As this is understood in this passage 1Jn 2:15-17 so we must understand there is but one truth and the resolve of that

truth 'IS' held within the unbounded realities of Our God... so with keeping of the world in our parts-> God's truth cannot

abide yet with other parts that keep with the s(S)pirit His Truth remains... and my choice becomes to me My Lord's

Sovereign election of me- underserved yet remaining my choice yet remaining His Sovereign election ... as we have

seen our sin divide the God Head in the price of redemption at a moment in time now held in one place of keeping for

eternities with God's consuming wrath (hell) awaiting- though now we see it all together here in this place sin bringing

confusion and righteousness clarity... This drives me to seek Him in the moments of my day and to worship Him in

those moments-> so He allows according to His Word and all become in those moments mute for the Love that 'IS'

instilled in my understanding during this cannot be divided and the how shrinks from necessity as the 'IS' consumes me!

The outcome of God's Word can only be of worship of what can be understood and that which is still unfathomable yet

hope to be fathomed. Do you not find it comforting the realities of this in The Contents of the writ? Love, Steven

[OneLight]

The answer is us, not he Holy Spirit. Why do men not surrender completely to the Holy Spirit? Why do men allow the clutter of their own ideas cloud what He is trying to say? Why do men start with an idea and then search scripture to find support instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them through scripture? One answer as to why is found in 1 Corinthians 13 were we read " we look through a glass darkly", not fully understanding all that we are shown or read. We also read that pride was the first sin found in Lucifer, claiming to be like God. Out of pride comes arrogance, where all learning stops. Is this not what we do in part, believing that what we hold as true somehow makes us more like God in our understanding?

When a person accepts Jesus, they are more than willing to accept all He has for them. Then they start to learn a little here and a little there, developing a foundation on which they will build their theology. The problem arises when we believe that what we have is the only truth. It may be true, but there may be more to this truth than they realize, but those who are of a strong will seem to close their minds as if they have a tunnel vision in their learning. There seems to start a change in their willingness to surrender all to Him, believing they have the answers already, they lock them away, not being able to add to or change them until they are willing to expose them to change.

An example:

If I surrender 100% to the Lord, and He teaches me 3% of what I need to learn, and then I lock that 3% away for safe keeping, now all the Lord has to work with is 97%, where I am not willing to change the first 3%, being safely locked away. As people continue to study, they continue to lock away more and more of what they perceive as a "completed message or understanding", which removes that much more from being able to be worked with. What these people do not realize is that we build upon what we have learned, changing what we first started with to form to the full truth of the whole message. These locked away segments are not the full truth, but partial truths.

Learning takes humility, complete surrender, the willingness to stop and realize that we do not fully understand. The Holy Spirit "molds" our understanding and thinking to be more like Christ's. He cannot mold what we are unwilling to give to Him by safely locking it away. He is the Potter and we are the clay. The clay never says to the Potter, "You have finished with this part already, so do not touch it anymore". That is what people do when they lock away what they feel is the final lesson on any subject.

[Sevenseas]

Really good post OneLight...simple to understand but I think hits the nail on the head

[Sevenseas]

The Word gave the answer as to why so many different doctrines and belief system. First, not many even care to hear the Holy Spirit. You tell them that tongues is a great help in this area and they twist a bunch of scriptures as to why they won't bother with it.

Seriously Mike? Seriously? The Holy Spirit is the help...not tongues...please remember what Paul had to say about speaking like an angel,

working miracles and having all knowledge...you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues. The Bible says so.

In my opinion, you are going before I ever spoke in tongues, I heard from God quite clearly. Really.

[NeedYouLord]

Wow..."If" The Holy Spirit is leading...Is The Holy Spirit leading? Ummm...I agree wholeheartedly that some of us don't Seek or Find...I didn't for a very long time...but NOW-Whole different story...and I will go to "the other thread" to talk about tongues....Hahaha...I sorry...couldn't help myself...

[WIP]

Onelight I agree with your post well said.....the Holy Spirit will only lead and guide those who permit Him to do just that..holding back nothing. Our God is not a God of confusion...its man who causes the confusion.

[enoob57]

The Word gave the answer as to why so many different doctrines and belief system. First, not many even care to hear the Holy Spirit. You tell them that tongues is a great help in this area and they twist a bunch of scriptures as to why they won't bother with it.

Seriously Mike? Seriously? The Holy Spirit is the help...not tongues...please remember what Paul had to say about speaking like an angel,

working miracles and having all knowledge...you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues. The Bible says so.

In my opinion, you are going before I ever spoke in tongues, I heard from God quite clearly. Really.

[L10]

The answer is us, not he Holy Spirit. Why do men not surrender completely to the Holy Spirit? Why do men allow the clutter of their own ideas cloud what He is trying to say? Why do men start with an idea and then search scripture to find support instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them through scripture? One answer as to why is found in 1 Corinthians 13 were we read " we look through a glass darkly", not fully understanding all that we are shown or read. We also read that pride was the first sin found in Lucifer, claiming to be like God. Out of pride comes arrogance, where all learning stops. Is this not what we do in part, believing that what we hold as true somehow makes us more like God in our understanding?

When a person accepts Jesus, they are more than willing to accept all He has for them. Then they start to learn a little here and a little there, developing a foundation on which they will build their theology. The problem arises when we believe that what we have is the only truth. It may be true, but there may be more to this truth than they realize, but those who are of a strong will seem to close their minds as if they have a tunnel vision in their learning. There seems to start a change in their willingness to surrender all to Him, believing they have the answers already, they lock them away, not being able to add to or change them until they are willing to expose them to change.

An example:

If I surrender 100% to the Lord, and He teaches me 3% of what I need to learn, and then I lock that 3% away for safe keeping, now all the Lord has to work with is 97%, where I am not willing to change the first 3%, being safely locked away. As people continue to study, they continue to lock away more and more of what they perceive as a "completed message or understanding", which removes that much more from being able to be worked with. What these people do not realize is that we build upon what we have learned, changing what we first started with to form to the full truth of the whole message. These locked away segments are not the full truth, but partial truths.

Learning takes humility, complete surrender, the willingness to stop and realize that we do not fully understand. The Holy Spirit "molds" our understanding and thinking to be more like Christ's. He cannot mold what we are unwilling to give to Him by safely locking it away. He is the Potter and we are the clay. The clay never says to the Potter, "You have finished with this part already, so do not touch it anymore". That is what people do when they lock away what they feel is the final lesson on any subject.

I think this was a good post as a person discerning, but when I apply a humble look at things, there is a conundrum of sorts. It is not fully that easy to tell when it is our understanding, and when it is God's. Though we know from Is 55:8 " My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not mine" ~ being God. So, why is it strictly divided between awesome people on the gifts of the spirit? Why huge division on the Calvin/ Arminian debate, that seems to grow worse. Now emergent thinking as well.

I do not believe it is purely humans pushing away the Holy Spirit, or it would not be so evenly divided on the C/A thing. It also would not have so many scriptures that show clarity for both sides.

So, I think your post was excellent for so many things in our walk, 99.9% of them. Still some answers are not going to be agreed upon by the most humble and intelligent Christian scholars. I have noted this in volume after volume. Thanks for the good post though.