We all have our own views

[Guest]

I have to agree with Bopeep on this. Let to each their own. You won't change them anyway. And once you feel that prideful anger welling up in you, you're no longer being of God.

Maybe someday all Christians will get along. No anger, no pride, no screaming or yelling. I hope I see that. But I'd rather go be with the Lord.

Why do we presume that "we wont change them". We can maybe present the case that WE won't change them, but that is not the same as saying they won't change their mind, or that God cannot use us to help them change.

I know of at least 7 people here at worthy, who have changed their views on eschatology because of what they have heard from me (according to them) either in terms of becoming post-trib in their eschatology, or at least abandoning pre-trib eschatology. I am re-evaluating my position in the Calvinism/Arminiumism/ect. debate, because of things others have said to me. I myself changed by eschatological understanding one i heard there were other views bedsides pre-trib.

Thirty plus years as a Christian and I have not yet been a member of a church that taught anything other than pre-trib. That is okay. I have no problem that they disagree with me on this topic, it is not something that a mature Christian will break fellowship over.

Your main point of not getting angry or prideful is exactly right, However, eschatology is important enough that God chose to include many many details on how it will unfold. I presume from that, that He desires us to think it is as important, as He thinks it is, and to study it an discern just as with the rest of scripture.

Discussing these issues, should not divide us, and in fact, do not divide us. Wrong attitudes divide us, discussion, even passionate discussion, leads to greater knowledge and understanding, which contributes to unity,

I would hate to think, that people urging others to stop fighting over these thing, might lead so some to be silent, when they have insighful things to contribute.

As I said, it is patently not true, that people will not change, they clearly do. Our goal should not be to change people's minds, not to win debates, but let's be careful about encouraging people to back off too much, with the possible outcome leading to ignorance of the things of God. Sharing our views and more importantly, or reasons for our views, is a very good thing. We need to examine in ourselves, whether we are following the model of 1 Pet 3:15 in our discussions. To me, that means we need to have some serious self-examination. If we find ourselves getting angry, we need to ask ourselves why we are angry, and work on fixing that.

One thing I do not understand though. Bopeeps o.p. is correct, we can be different without belittling each other, but some have made posts to the effect that they do not like the fact that others disagree with them, and desire that these others would stop disagreeing, as if disagreement is the issue. We sometimes see the other guy as the one disagreeing, and not notice that they can only disagree, if we disagree with them. If we get into a discussion and find ourselves getting angry, my opinion is that it is time for us to leave the conversation, not to suggest the other person do so. It is up to us to mind our own behavior and attitude. We can repent, but we cannot repent for others.

[missmuffet]

I have to agree with Bopeep on this. Let to each their own. You won't change them anyway. And once you feel that prideful anger welling up in you, you're no longer being of God.

Maybe someday all Christians will get along. No anger, no pride, no screaming or yelling. I hope I see that. But I'd rather go be with the Lord.

Why do we presume that "we wont change them". We can maybe present the case that WE won't change them, but that is not the same as saying they won't change their mind, or that God cannot use us to help them change.

I know of at least 7 people here at worthy, who have changed their views on eschatology because of what they have heard from me (according to them) either in terms of becoming post-trib in their eschatology, or at least abandoning pre-trib eschatology. I am re-evaluating my position in the Calvinism/Arminiumism/ect. debate, because of things others have said to me. I myself changed by eschatological understanding one i heard there were other views bedsides pre-trib.

Thirty plus years as a Christian and I have not yet been a member of a church that taught anything other than pre-trib. That is okay. I have no problem that they disagree with me on this topic, it is not something that a mature Christian will break fellowship over.

Your main point of not getting angry or prideful is exactly right, However, eschatology is important enough that God chose to include many many details on how it will unfold. I presume from that, that He desires us to think it is as important, as He thinks it is, and to study it an discern just as with the rest of scripture.

Discussing these issues, should not divide us, and in fact, do not divide us. Wrong attitudes divide us, discussion, even passionate discussion, leads to greater knowledge and understanding, which contributes to unity,

I would hate to think, that people urging others to stop fighting over these thing, might lead so some to be silent, when they have insighful things to contribute.

As I said, it is patently not true, that people will not change, they clearly do. Our goal should not be to change people's minds, not to win debates, but let's be careful about encouraging people to back off too much, with the possible outcome leading to ignorance of the things of God. Sharing our views and more importantly, or reasons for our views, is a very good thing. We need to examine in ourselves, whether we are following the model of 1 Pet 3:15 in our discussions. To me, that means we need to have some serious self-examination. If we find ourselves getting angry, we need to ask ourselves why we are angry, and work on fixing that.

One thing I do not understand though. Bopeeps o.p. is correct, we can be different without belittling each other, but some have made posts to the effect that they do not like the fact that others disagree with them, and desire that these others would stop disagreeing, as if disagreement is the issue. We sometimes see the other guy as the one disagreeing, and not notice that they can only disagree, if we disagree with them. If we get into a discussion and find ourselves getting angry, my opinion is that it is time for us to leave the conversation, not to suggest the other person do so. It is up to us to mind our own behavior and attitude. We can repent, but we cannot repent for others.

Exactly.Telling them the "truth" with kindness and respect is what we are supposed to do.My issue is a heated discussions.Are we not suppose to minister with love?

[OneLight]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

So if someone tells you that God is actually an intelligent alien from another dimension and will return with His spaceship to rule over us, you see nothing wrong with this? I agree that how we approach what others say is important, but when someone is so far off the wall that there is no support, but just radical theories, it has to be dealt with sternly so others who are seeking the truth will see it for what it is.

Personally I would have issues if someone thought God was an alien.But life is full of choices.I pray daily for those who are not saved.The rest is up to God.I can not change a heart only God can.God does not make us love him. *** this was just uncalled for *** The reason He gives us a choice is because He loves us.If your wife put a gun to your head and told you that you had to love her would that be love?

How does what you say have anything to do with what I posted???

[Fez]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

Ok tell me what your view is then?

You cannot start a discussion about respecting each others views when I don't know what yours are on the subject.

So care to elucidate?

[missmuffet]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

So if someone tells you that God is actually an intelligent alien from another dimension and will return with His spaceship to rule over us, you see nothing wrong with this? I agree that how we approach what others say is important, but when someone is so far off the wall that there is no support, but just radical theories, it has to be dealt with sternly so others who are seeking the truth will see it for what it is.

Personally I would have issues if someone thought God was an alien.But life is full of choices.I pray daily for those who are not saved.The rest is up to God.I can not change a heart only God can.God does not make us love him. *** this was just uncalled for *** The reason He gives us a choice is because He loves us.If your wife put a gun to your head and told you that you had to love her would that be love?

How does what you say have anything to do with what I posted???

I am responding to your question of ministering to those who have a different view of God than we do.

[missmuffet]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

Ok tell me what your view is then?

You cannot start a discussion about respecting each others views when I don't know what yours are on the subject.

So care to elucidate?

I have prayed over all of the different views of eschatology.I have studied them.Not wanting to be closed mined.My peace has come with the pre-trib theory.

[OneLight]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

So if someone tells you that God is actually an intelligent alien from another dimension and will return with His spaceship to rule over us, you see nothing wrong with this? I agree that how we approach what others say is important, but when someone is so far off the wall that there is no support, but just radical theories, it has to be dealt with sternly so others who are seeking the truth will see it for what it is.

Personally I would have issues if someone thought God was an alien.But life is full of choices.I pray daily for those who are not saved.The rest is up to God.I can not change a heart only God can.God does not make us love him. *** this was just uncalled for *** The reason He gives us a choice is because He loves us.If your wife put a gun to your head and told you that you had to love her would that be love?

How does what you say have anything to do with what I posted???

I am responding to your question of ministering to those who have a different view of God than we do.

You will need to tell others what your belief is in order to be ministering to those who are wrong. By saying we have to respect them for their view without know what their view is would not be wise. I never believe in blanket statements like this.

[OneLight]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

Ok tell me what your view is then?

You cannot start a discussion about respecting each others views when I don't know what yours are on the subject.

So care to elucidate?

I have prayed over all of the different views of eschatology.I have studied them.Not wanting to be closed mined.My peace has come with the pre-trib theory.

Being respectful, may I ask what scripture you use to come to this conclusion?

[missmuffet]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

Ok tell me what your view is then?

You cannot start a discussion about respecting each others views when I don't know what yours are on the subject.

So care to elucidate?

I have prayed over all of the different views of eschatology.I have studied them.Not wanting to be closed mined.My peace has come with the pre-trib theory.

Being respectful, may I ask what scripture you use to come to this conclusion?

This is just one of many that has brought me to my conclusion:

1 Thessalonians 4:15–17

[missmuffet]

We all have our own views of Eschatology.That does not mean that we should belittle or harrass someone who has a different view than we do.We should respect each others view.

Ok tell me what your view is then?

You cannot start a discussion about respecting each others views when I don't know what yours are on the subject.

So care to elucidate?

I have prayed over all of the different views of eschatology.I have studied them.Not wanting to be closed mined.My peace has come with the pre-trib theory.

Being respectful, may I ask what scripture you use to come to this conclusion?

1 Thessalonians 15-17

¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This verse among many.