Who do you think the woman is in Revelation 12?

[Jonah'sJourney]

The book of Revelation was written specifically to the bond-servants of Jesus Christ (1:1)--Christian believers. I think she is the church.

[OakWood]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

Edited March 26, 2013 by WillowWood

[gdemoss]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

Because God said that they are for signs and for seasons. Seasons meaning appointed times by God and not the 4 seasons of the year.

Gen 1:14-17 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

[OakWood]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

Because God said that they are for signs and for seasons. Seasons meaning appointed times by God and not the 4 seasons of the year.

Gen 1:14-17 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

I understand that they are for signs, but why are you using pagan symbolism? Virgo looks no more like a woman than I look like an apple. If you take the constellation of Leo for example,then you join the dots - it can look like a lion, a piece of cheese or a microwave oven.

If I believed that Taurus was the god of carrots then I'm sure that with a bit of imagination I can make Taurus look like a carrot or a bunch of carrots.

Most of this terminology was based on pagan worship. Not one single constellation looks like anything that it is supposed to. Are you telling me that Virgo really looks lijke a woman? Okay, one star represents the left eye, another star represents the right shin. Another star doesn't quite fit into place so it's possibly a birth mark two inches up from the left elbow.

This all sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

The constellations have even changed over the years. Pisces may have vaguely resembled a fish two thousand years ago (if you stood on one leg and squinted a bit), but now it looks like ... well, whatever you want it to be....

The constellations are not even of similar size (when observed). They have been strectched and twisted to suit whatever mythology lies behind them.

I haven't seen one reference in the Bible to constellations, what they are called, and what false gods they represent. If you have verses then please show them to me. I really don't want to be left out of this one.

[xero]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

Because God said that they are for signs and for seasons. Seasons meaning appointed times by God and not the 4 seasons of the year.

Gen 1:14-17 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

I understand that they are for signs, but why are you using pagan symbolism? Virgo looks no more like a woman than I look like an apple. If you take the constellation of Leo for example,then you join the dots - it can look like a lion, a piece of cheese or a microwave oven.

If I believed that Taurus was the god of carrots then I'm sure that with a bit of imagination I can make Taurus look like a carrot or a bunch of carrots.

Most of this terminology was based on pagan worship. Not one single constellation looks like anything that it is supposed to. Are you telling me that Virgo really looks lijke a woman? Okay, one star represents the left eye, another star represents the right shin. Another star doesn't quite fit into place so it's possibly a birth mark two inches up from the left elbow.

This all sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

The constellations have even changed over the years. Pisces may have vaguely resembled a fish two thousand years ago (if you stood on one leg and squinted a bit), but now it looks like ... well, whatever you want it to be....

The constellations are not even of similar size (when observed). They have been strectched and twisted to suit whatever mythology lies behind them.

I haven't seen one reference in the Bible to constellations, what they are called, and what false gods they represent. If you have verses then please show them to me. I really don't want to be left out of this one.

Job 38:31 "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

There are other verses that mention false gods, moloch, chiun, astarte, baal, etc. but it has nothing to do with interpreting prophecy. Dont get me wrong it helps to understand the mind set of the peoples of that era by studying their culture but prophecy is interpreted by the Bible.

Revelation is full of references and allusions to symbolic imagery in the OT.

I concur that Revelation 12 is about Israel.

[gdemoss]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

Because God said that they are for signs and for seasons. Seasons meaning appointed times by God and not the 4 seasons of the year.

Gen 1:14-17 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

I understand that they are for signs, but why are you using pagan symbolism? Virgo looks no more like a woman than I look like an apple. If you take the constellation of Leo for example,then you join the dots - it can look like a lion, a piece of cheese or a microwave oven.

If I believed that Taurus was the god of carrots then I'm sure that with a bit of imagination I can make Taurus look like a carrot or a bunch of carrots.

Most of this terminology was based on pagan worship. Not one single constellation looks like anything that it is supposed to. Are you telling me that Virgo really looks lijke a woman? Okay, one star represents the left eye, another star represents the right shin. Another star doesn't quite fit into place so it's possibly a birth mark two inches up from the left elbow.

This all sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

The constellations have even changed over the years. Pisces may have vaguely resembled a fish two thousand years ago (if you stood on one leg and squinted a bit), but now it looks like ... well, whatever you want it to be....

The constellations are not even of similar size (when observed). They have been strectched and twisted to suit whatever mythology lies behind them.

I haven't seen one reference in the Bible to constellations, what they are called, and what false gods they represent. If you have verses then please show them to me. I really don't want to be left out of this one.

On what authority do you claim that it is pagan symbolism?

The text says straight forward:

Rev 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

What other wonder have you heard about in heaven that fits the description?

If your going to knock down that which another understands then you need to be ready to educate the one who misunderstands with the truth that you hold that explains the error. I am ready to review whatever you have to show me.

As xero pointed out, constellations are specifically named in scripture such as Pleiades and Orion. I was simply seeking to help you by trying to answer your question. I am right along side of you as it pertains to seeking to understand what they were thinking when they began calling that set of stars Virgo the Virgin as I hardly can play connect the dots and make out a woman. Feel free to accept or reject that which is presented. Do that which seems good unto you.

Peace in Christ.

[missmuffet]

Although I still think it is Israel.

http://www.gotquesti...nomy-Bible.html

[back2thebible]

I've seen a lot of references to constellations on this forum. I don't get it. I thought Christians were meant to stay away from pagan symbolism. Am I wrong? Is there something that I am missing? Can someone enlighten me please?

Why would the constellation of Virgo, for example be of any significance to anything written ijn scripture? Why are we discussing astrology here?

horoscope is pagan, the heavens declare His righteousness, the wise men knew of the birth of Christ by the signs in the sky, there is a Christian way to view the heavens that does not include fortune telling

[xero]

Galatians 4:26 "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

[2404]

Any thoughts here?

The Church.