No more

[Willa]

I do pity the people who think they must endure God's wrath. I pity even more the people who think it is all some mystical fable and that the trib already occurred at the destruction of Jeruselem. But like you. I won't argue the point. I express it occasionly and enough said. It is not worth getting ulcers over.

But I am motivated to pray for the salvation of loved ones and friends, because I believe the time of His coming is much nearer now than when I first believed. Rom 13:11

And I also admonish others to not forsake the assembling of themselves together, but exhorting , and so much more as I see the Day approaching. Heb 10:25.

If the disciples believed that Jesus' return was imminent, how much more should we. We see prophecy being fullfilled before our eyes as the nations allign for the Ezekiel 38 battle. We live in exciting times. We should all have our lamps full of the oil of the Holy Spirit and be prepared for the return of our Groom. We should be redeeming the time. Whether He come today or in 100 years, we need to be ready.

[FreeinChrist]

Politics and the Rapture are two things I refuse to discuss.

 

This shows you are a man of great wisdom.

[Unshackled Spirit]

As long as you have the hope of glory { JESUS CHRIST } ... 

 

English Revised Version
because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: Romans 10:9

[MarkNigro]

I am finished trying to defend the Biblical position of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view. It is just a lesson in frustration for me and an aggravation, which I'm sure is not the desire of the Lord. No one who holds a different view is going to be convinced by what I say anyway. And I also realize that as long as I simply put the widely held view out there, that those who haven't taken any position yet or want to know more about it will have all the information I have used to arrive at my own conclusion. So post your disagreements, your evidence, your conclusions that cause you to hold a different view. But don't expect me to argue a defense for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture that I hold since I have done so until I am blue in the face and it's not worth it. Its not salvational to me, and I will never loose faith in the Blood of the Lamb in the unlikely event that I will be here for any portion of the Tribulation. Thanks for your understanding, my brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen!

I believe in the pre Tribulation rapture.

 

 

Revelation 3:7-11

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

The church in Philadelphia is the raptured church. Notice the open door in verse 4. That matches the open door John saw in Revelation 4:1. John was playing out the rapture.

 

Now look in verse 10. "The hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth" is of course the tribulation. Note that those in Philadelphia are kept from that. But the hour tries "them that dwell upon the earth." So to be kept from that, the church in Philadelphia must not be dwelling on the earth, because those that dwell on the earth are being tried. So they must be in heaven. They are raptured.

 

Matthew 25:1-13

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

Notice in verse 10 there is a door that the wise five go in with the bridegroom.  That is the same door mentioned in the passage to Philadelphia and the open door John saw in Revelation 4:1. The foolish five do not go through the door and it is shut to them. The foolish 5 are not destroyed right after this event, but they missed out on the rapture and must go through tribulation. Now the bridegroom is Jesus Christ and He has chosen His bride. The bride appears in Revelation 19 in heaven. After the wedding Jesus Christ then returns with all His angels and saints to destroy the wicked.

           

Notice the order. The bridegroom comes, Jesus Christ, and takes the bride to heaven (rapture of the church in Philadelphia). The wedding is in heaven. After that Jesus Christ comes to destroy the wicked. 

[Butch5]

I am finished trying to defend the Biblical position of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view. It is just a lesson in frustration for me and an aggravation, which I'm sure is not the desire of the Lord. No one who holds a different view is going to be convinced by what I say anyway. And I also realize that as long as I simply put the widely held view out there, that those who haven't taken any position yet or want to know more about it will have all the information I have used to arrive at my own conclusion. So post your disagreements, your evidence, your conclusions that cause you to hold a different view. But don't expect me to argue a defense for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture that I hold since I have done so until I am blue in the face and it's not worth it. Its not salvational to me, and I will never loose faith in the Blood of the Lamb in the unlikely event that I will be here for any portion of the Tribulation. Thanks for your understanding, my brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen!

The danger I see in holding a pre-tribulation rapture is that one may not prepare for the tribulation if they don't expect to be here. If that person suddenly realizes they are going to go through it it could be rather rough. The Scriptures tell us that God will prepare places for His people just like He did for the Israelites when Hew brought judgment on Egypt. However, if one is expecting to taken away they may not be prepared to get to or even know about these places. I believe the Tribulation is not that far off and would exhort everyone to prepare.

[MarkNigro]

 

I am finished trying to defend the Biblical position of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view. It is just a lesson in frustration for me and an aggravation, which I'm sure is not the desire of the Lord. No one who holds a different view is going to be convinced by what I say anyway. And I also realize that as long as I simply put the widely held view out there, that those who haven't taken any position yet or want to know more about it will have all the information I have used to arrive at my own conclusion. So post your disagreements, your evidence, your conclusions that cause you to hold a different view. But don't expect me to argue a defense for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture that I hold since I have done so until I am blue in the face and it's not worth it. Its not salvational to me, and I will never loose faith in the Blood of the Lamb in the unlikely event that I will be here for any portion of the Tribulation. Thanks for your understanding, my brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen!

The danger I see in holding a pre-tribulation rapture is that one may not prepare for the tribulation if they don't expect to be here. If that person suddenly realizes they are going to go through it it could be rather rough. The Scriptures tell us that God will prepare places for His people just like He did for the Israelites when Hew brought judgment on Egypt. However, if one is expecting to taken away they may not be prepared to get to or even know about these places. I believe the Tribulation is not that far off and would exhort everyone to prepare.

 

If God prepares a place that is good.

 

But there is a greater danger for those that do not believe in the pre tribulation rapture and are not saved.

 

Because they are not saved (trusting in works, for example) they will not go in the rapture.

Some lie will be put forth to explain why away the rapture will be put forth.

 

Those that remain will be told they must now received "his name" and the "his Father's name". This phrase is found in almost all the new bible verions.

 

The King James just has "his Father's name" the singular name matches Matthew 28.

 

When they do take his name first it will be the mark of the beast.

[blessedpeter]

I do pity the people who think they must endure God's wrath. I pity even more the people who think it is all some mystical fable and that the trib already occurred at the destruction of Jeruselem. But like you. I won't argue the point. I express it occasionly and enough said. It is not worth getting ulcers over.

But I am motivated to pray for the salvation of loved ones and friends, because I believe the time of His coming is much nearer now than when I first believed. Rom 13:11

And I also admonish others to not forsake the assembling of themselves together, but exhorting , and so much more as I see the Day approaching. Heb 10:25.

If the disciples believed that Jesus' return was imminent, how much more should we. We see prophecy being fullfilled before our eyes as the nations allign for the Ezekiel 38 battle. We live in exciting times. We should all have our lamps full of the oil of the Holy Spirit and be prepared for the return of our Groom. We should be redeeming the time. Whether He come today or in 100 years, we need to be ready.

 

I am sure the Christians who were subject to the persecutions under Nero and Diocletian thought that they were surely undergoing the Tribulation, but I do not think they ever thought they were enduring God's wrath. Nor have these brutal persecutions of Christians ever ceased in the world. We here in North America undergo no persecution at all. The question I ask myself is if I can undergo such persecution. Will I really face a most horrible and excruciating death rather than just place a little pinch of incense to Caesar on the sacred fire and then be on my way? If not, am I really worthy of Christ? "Whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever would lose his life for My sake will find it."

[Willa]

Many people here in the USA don't think others have been persecuted for their faith, especially men. Women married to unbelievers are sometime beaten for being Christians and wanting to attend church. Men are more often discriminated against and sometimes given the dirty jobs that no one else wants to do. They are sometimes not promoted as well. Of course this is if they don't participate in cheating on their wives, drinking with the guys and enjoying the dirty jokes and porn at work. Often family will no longer want anything to do with you. My husband's dad threatened to disinherit him.

Personally life is not worth living without God in it, and no one is more miserable than a back sliden Christian. To have experienced God's love and peace and then turn away from Him causes you to be full of self loathing and regret. Moreover, you have no hope and no reason to live. Those of us who have grown to depend on God in all things and grown very close to Him will consider it a "no brainer". I have heard that God gives you the strength to do His will when the time comes and not before. So pray for the power of the Holy Spirit to enable you to glorifiy Him in all your life now so it won't be a hard decision should the time come.

[Guest]

I have heard that God gives you the strength to do His will when the time comes and not before. So pray for the power of the Holy Spirit to enable you to glorify Him in all your life now so it won't be a hard decision should the time come.

 

 

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

 

I've got The Father on my side, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit and 2/3 of the angels. What do you think I'm going to do? Sit down and cry? Leonard Ravenhill

[missmuffet]

Suit yourself.