questioner2 Posted June 12, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) Last night I had a dream and woke up to the Holy Spirit talking with me... The conclusion of my conversation with the Holy Spirit was that he told me to come to this message board and quote the following verses about myself. 1) Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked, who can know it?" 2) Romans 7:18, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is goood I find not." Edited June 12, 2013 by GoldenEagle <<<Edited out section of this post. >>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 12, 2013 This brings up my next question. I have always thought that the Bible must be inspired because God would not allow His word to be compromised, and that He would preserve HIs word in any language or translation that it was given in. A big mistake we all tend to make is to put God in the box of modern Western scientific thinking. But the Scriptures were not written from that perspective. And the Lord is not bound by our perception of "accuracy." He can even use translation errors for His glory. (I recall hearing a testimony, although I forget the details, where someone took a verse, which I had learned incorrectly translated the original Hebrew or Greek word, and gained what they needed to overcome a problem (!). We need to get over our "superior reasoning" and trust in our intellect and belief that reason and logic are king, and submit our way of thinking and perceiving to the Lord, not trusting in our wisdom (rationality), but the wisdom of God that defies "wisdom". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 This brings up my next question. I have always thought that the Bible must be inspired because God would not allow His word to be compromised, and that He would preserve HIs word in any language or translation that it was given in. But clearly, the NIV and NASB translate Lucifer in Isaiah 14 as "morning star". Is this a mistranslation, and if so, why would God allow His word to be mistranslated like that, especially when the conclusion is so nasty? My faith in Jesus is not shaken. I know and have tasted that He is good. What is shaken in me is my faith in the veracity of the book of Revelation as inspired. The doctrine of inspiration does not extend to copies or translations of copies. The word of God is preserved even in the copies. Translational difficulties do not affect the integrity of the text. It only shows that we have more work to do. What is taught about inspiration is that it was the original writers, the prophets and the apostles who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The original copies were written under inspiration. The bible is not copied or translated under inspiration. Furthermore, the issues you raise have more to do with the inerrancy of the text. Inerrancy simply means that if the Bible says it happened, it happened. Again, tranlsational difficulties do not adversely affect the integrity of the text, as those are human issues, not substantive issues with the message of the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted June 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hi questioner2, I'm an old guy, and I've been a Christian for 30 years. But I'm not good with languages, so I can only read English. I have had problems like the one you're having. I still have problems, even after all these years. However, I know God is God because when I became a Christian I asked Him to prove to me He is real. He did this in ways that only mattered to me. So I know God is real, and I know Jesus died for us and ascended into Heaven. When I'm confused I remind myself of this. I also remind myself that God never said we need to fully understand Him. Understanding every little thing about God is not necessary for salvation. Faith is necessary, and that I have. When I get into trouble with a word or phrase in the Bible I remind myself of this. The original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic manuscripts were written (some anyway) with no spaces between the words. No upper and lower case letters, and no vowels. So given all that, it's a minor miracle the translations are as accurate as they are. And as shiloh said, only the original manuscripts can be considered as word for word accurate. So when I has a problem understanding something, I put it to the back of my mind. In time God usually gives me the answer if I keep asking. Just never doubt what the Bible says about Jesus, because that's all we need to be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 14, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2013 If Lucifer was the Morning Star before he fell... it would mean the greatest creation of God (Isaiah 14 / Ezekiel 28). When God the Word became the man God the Father created the body of... Jesus became the greatest creation (in body) of God and the bright and Morning Star (Hebrews 1:5 / 10:5). Jesus = God incarnate... the incarnate part being the only created part of Jesus as his Spirit is eternal and equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DInsights Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2013 So what is to be done with Revelation 22:16? It says,"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thigns in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." If Jesus is the morning star then he is lucifer and satan according to a comparison to Isaiah 14. Now I have seen both Jesus and satan in visions and dreams, and I assure you that they are not one and the same person. However, if I am going to take all of the Bible as the inspired word of God, I would have to believe that Jesus was satan, and I have chosen instead to disregard Revelation 22:16 as having been added by someone, and I am not sure I can even accep the book of Revelationis inspired. -- questioner 2 Above founds on very, very faulty premise and understanding. "Morning" figuratively introduces and welcomes every creature into Heaven. It is the first domain and comprises the first category of all created beings in Heaven. That is how come there are "sons of the morning" and "morning stars" in Heaven. Stars are angels; Lucifer, as a created angel, remains a morning star in Heaven until kicked out. Isaiah 14:12-9 prophesies about Lucifer cast down from Heaven. Our Christ Jesus, who is better than angels, is "Son of the Morning" because of His excellent name (Heb. 1:4). Like Christ Jesus who is Son of the Morning, all sons of God are new creatures called "sons of the morning". Christ Jesus, the Son of the Morning, can also be referred to as the "Morning Star" because in/of Him are the "morning stars"... angels of God. The Lord Jesus Christ calls Himself as both man (root of David) and Morning Star (Angel) in Rev. 22:16. Remember that Jesus Christ walks in the midst of stars (angels) and candlelights (churches of men). Saints who overcome Jezebel, and do not subscribe to her doctrine of fornication and idolatory, will be given the "morning star" (heavenly gift of an angel; Rev. 2:28; also read vs. 18-29). They will be as sons of God will angels in Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2013 Isaiah 14-12 Luke 10:18 Which describes satan Revelation 22:16 Which descibes Jesus Satan is the most beautiful creation of God.The most powerful of all the Angels. Jesus is the bright morning star.Jesus,as God incarnate,the Lord of the Universe no way can the two be compared.Satan is a created being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2013 Isaiah 14-12 Luke 10:18 Which describes satan Revelation 22:16 Which descibes Jesus Satan is the most beautiful creation of God.The most powerful of all the Angels. Jesus is the bright morning star.Jesus,as God incarnate,the Lord of the Universe no way can the two be compared.Satan is a created being. Absolutely...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The problem always lies within us. We read something and instantly believe we understand it to mean exactly what we think it does. It appears that the translations that use Morning Star in Isaiah are rendering the name Lucifer as Morning Star which also appears to be acceptable. The error comes when, in our minds, we begin make connections that do not exist. When we equate the name Morning Star to Lucifer in Isaiah and Jesus in Revelation, and then conclude that that means they are one in the same. Right premise. Wrong conclusion. Many people during the time of Jesus were named Jesus. They were not all Jesus, the Son of God. Our adversary the Devil is roaming around seeking to help you and I make various connections that will destroy our faith in something of God. He loves to cut a book out of the bible by causing us to question its validity. Don't be fooled. Sometimes we just are without understanding. Trust in God and continue doing the good that he saved you to do without fear of his word being compromised and you will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevelationWriter Posted July 6, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 608 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2013 - The word 'Lucifer' is of The Latin for 'Light Bearer'. As The Moon bears the light of The Sun during the day. - The word Lucifer it's self is not of the original Dead Sea Scrolls of The Hebrew. But the phrase 'day star son of the morning' is. - Is.14:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts