What is the GT (Great Tribulation)

[Leonard]

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

[Guest]

If there IS a 'THE Great Tribulation,' the Apostle John was IN IT in the 1st century A.D. according to the scripture as cited above by our Friend. Going from my memory (admittedly a very dicey proposition in my superannuation!), I do not think the definite article is in that passage of the Greek texts either. KJV has it as "your companion in tribulation (thlipsis, or 'pressure' as earlier noted in this thread)."

 

Hi Leonard,

 

That particular verse to which I was referring is in Rev 7:

 

  13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

14 καὶ εἰρήκα αὐτῷ, Κύριε μου, σὺ οἶδας. καὶ εἶπεν μοι, Οὗτοι εἰσιν οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης καὶ ἔπλυναν τὰς στολὰς αὐτῶν καὶ ἐλεύκαναν αὐτὰς ἐν τῷ αἵματι τοῦ ἀρνίου.

 

 

thlipseōs tēs megalēs            genitive feminine singular article

 

just to be clear, lol, but it is Greek to me!

 

[Littlelambseativy]

There are many tribulations mentioned throughout the Bible but only one  is identified as 'the great tribulation'.

 

Mark 13:14

[ The Great Tribulation ] “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

 

Mark 13:19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

 

Revelation 7:9

[ A Multitude from the Great Tribulation ] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Revelation 7:14

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 And I said to him, “Sir,[a] you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Jesus said there would be trials and tribulation but none have been as has been identified in Mark 13:19 above. That is what is yet to come after the great 'catching away'. Those are days during which man will want the hills and rocks to hide them from them when food cannot be bought or sold without the mark of the beast. The time of great torment for man, beast and the earth.

[Littlelambseativy]

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

 

 

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

Can you prove me wrong?

[Leonard]

 

If there IS a 'THE Great Tribulation,' the Apostle John was IN IT in the 1st century A.D. according to the scripture as cited above by our Friend. Going from my memory (admittedly a very dicey proposition in my superannuation!), I do not think the definite article is in that passage of the Greek texts either. KJV has it as "your companion in tribulation (thlipsis, or 'pressure' as earlier noted in this thread)."

 

Hi Leonard,

 

That particular verse to which I was referring is in Rev 7:

 

  13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

14 καὶ εἰρήκα αὐτῷ, Κύριε μου, σὺ οἶδας. καὶ εἶπεν μοι, Οὗτοι εἰσιν οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης καὶ ἔπλυναν τὰς στολὰς αὐτῶν καὶ ἐλεύκαναν αὐτὰς ἐν τῷ αἵματι τοῦ ἀρνίου.

 

 

thlipseōs tēs megalēs            genitive feminine singular article

 

just to be clear, lol, but it is Greek to me!

 

 

As you can see from the Greek the definite article ("the" in English) is not there at all in the Greek text, but was ADDED (no doubt for 'clarity') by the translators of whatever version you were quoting from there.  I am reminded of what John says about those who 'add too' or 'take away' from the Word of God!  Many of these modernist so-called 'translators' have MUCH for which they must answer before God!

[Leonard]

 

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

 

 

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

Can you prove me wrong?

 

Certainly not.  Nor have I any desire so to do.  I merely want you to realize WHY the scholars you trust make those connections.  Who says (and why?) 'The Antichrist' = Apollyon = satan????  The Bible certainly never says so, outright.  You have to pick about and hunt for what you believe are 'clues,' and as human beings it is always possible we see 'clues' when there's no 'there, there.'

 

I am aware of all these doctrines, built upon such framework, and do not automatically discount them, but I think we are stronger to stand solely on what the Bible SAYS, not our 'hints,' clues. 'connections,' and book-selling ideas.........

[nikki1]

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

There are four words [or combinations of words in mind: tribulation, THE tribulaton, Great Tribulation, and great tribulation such as has never been and never will be agian.

 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

In the world we certainly have pressure. But it can get worse - and it WILL get worse.

 

 

 

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

Here is the WORST time of tribulation ever, coming with the image that must be worshipped or die, and the mark that prevents anyone from buying or selling without it. It will be an unprecidented time of great pressure. Why greater that the World War 2 Holocaust? Because it will be world wide and if one takes the mark, they are doomed to an eternity in the lake of fire.

 

Worse yet, it seems God is on the other side, and declared the Beast will OVERCOME the saints. For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

 

Lamad

 

 

Very interesting, Lamad.  With that said, multitudes of people in the Middle East today, as I write this, are undergoing "great tribulation".  Many Egyptian Christian  copts cannot buy or sell, hold a job, are thrown in jail, tortured, raped   unless they take the mark of the beast (surrender to allah, convert to islam)  Christians through out the Middle East in muslim countries are savagely and brutally beheaded (a catholic priest and two other Christians were recently beheaded in Syria by rebels with what some describe as a kitchen knife, and the video is being shown on the web).  So, indeed, imo, great tribulation is already under way for many and is spreading.

 

I differ with you concerning

 

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

In Revelation Chapter 7, we are told a great multitude will come out of great tribulation. 

[iamlamad]

 

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

There are four words [or combinations of words in mind: tribulation, THE tribulaton, Great Tribulation, and great tribulation such as has never been and never will be agian.

 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

In the world we certainly have pressure. But it can get worse - and it WILL get worse.

 

 

 

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

Here is the WORST time of tribulation ever, coming with the image that must be worshipped or die, and the mark that prevents anyone from buying or selling without it. It will be an unprecidented time of great pressure. Why greater that the World War 2 Holocaust? Because it will be world wide and if one takes the mark, they are doomed to an eternity in the lake of fire.

 

Worse yet, it seems God is on the other side, and declared the Beast will OVERCOME the saints. For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

 

Lamad

 

 

Very interesting, Lamad.  With that said, multitudes of people in the Middle East today, as I write this, are undergoing "great tribulation".  Many Egyptian Christian  copts cannot buy or sell, hold a job, are thrown in jail, tortured, raped   unless they take the mark of the beast (surrender to allah, convert to islam)  Christians through out the Middle East in muslim countries are savagely and brutally beheaded (a catholic priest and two other Christians were recently beheaded in Syria by rebels with what some describe as a kitchen knife, and the video is being shown on the web).  So, indeed, imo, great tribulation is already under way for many and is spreading.

 

I differ with you concerning

 

 

 

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

In Revelation Chapter 7, we are told a great multitude will come out of great tribulation. 

 

That multitude in chapter 7 is the raptured church seen in heaven. They have JUST been raptured. it is said they come out of great tribulation. This is NOT the time Jesus spoke of that follows the abomination, for John has not yet even started the 70th week. Just as you said, it is great tribulation today in half the world, as people are being killed for their testimony. How can tribulation be greater than being killed? One cannot be killed twice. I suspect before the rapture, that will spread to all the world.  Again, chapter 7 versus chapter 13. There is 3 1/2 years between these two chapters.

 

John does not get to the midpoint and the abomination until chapter 11. Don't believe anyone who says Revelation is not in the right order. It is in God given order. any theory that must rearrange that order is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong. So the days of great tribulation spoken of by Jesus will not begin until after the abmination that divides the week. It will get worse when the image is set up and the mark established after chapter 14.

 

Lamad

Edited July 3, 2013 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

 

 

 

Antichrist - enemy of Christ and the Christians, Apollyon, Satan, Devil. 

Antichrist does not appear in Revelation but his name Apollyon does in Rev. 9:11 as does Satan Rev 12:9, 20:7 and in Rev 2.

At least that's the interpretation YOU put on all those names........

 

Can you prove me wrong?

 

Certainly not.  Nor have I any desire so to do.  I merely want you to realize WHY the scholars you trust make those connections.  Who says (and why?) 'The Antichrist' = Apollyon = satan????  The Bible certainly never says so, outright.  You have to pick about and hunt for what you believe are 'clues,' and as human beings it is always possible we see 'clues' when there's no 'there, there.'

 

I am aware of all these doctrines, built upon such framework, and do not automatically discount them, but I think we are stronger to stand solely on what the Bible SAYS, not our 'hints,' clues. 'connections,' and book-selling ideas.........

 

Is the first beast of Rev. 13, or is the second beast of Rev. 13 the "antichrist" - and why?     lamad

[nikki1]

 

 

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

There are four words [or combinations of words in mind: tribulation, THE tribulaton, Great Tribulation, and great tribulation such as has never been and never will be agian.

 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

In the world we certainly have pressure. But it can get worse - and it WILL get worse.

 

 

 

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

Here is the WORST time of tribulation ever, coming with the image that must be worshipped or die, and the mark that prevents anyone from buying or selling without it. It will be an unprecidented time of great pressure. Why greater that the World War 2 Holocaust? Because it will be world wide and if one takes the mark, they are doomed to an eternity in the lake of fire.

 

Worse yet, it seems God is on the other side, and declared the Beast will OVERCOME the saints. For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

 

Lamad

 

 

Very interesting, Lamad.  With that said, multitudes of people in the Middle East today, as I write this, are undergoing "great tribulation".  Many Egyptian Christian  copts cannot buy or sell, hold a job, are thrown in jail, tortured, raped   unless they take the mark of the beast (surrender to allah, convert to islam)  Christians through out the Middle East in muslim countries are savagely and brutally beheaded (a catholic priest and two other Christians were recently beheaded in Syria by rebels with what some describe as a kitchen knife, and the video is being shown on the web).  So, indeed, imo, great tribulation is already under way for many and is spreading.

 

I differ with you concerning

 

 

 

 For those that believe you are going to live through those days; think again: you will not live through, you will die or take the mark.

 

In Revelation Chapter 7, we are told a great multitude will come out of great tribulation. 

 

That multitude in chapter 7 is the raptured church seen in heaven. They have JUST been raptured. it is said they come out of great tribulation. This is NOT the time Jesus spoke of that follows the abomination, for John has not yet even started the 70th week. Just as you said, it is great tribulation today in half the world, as people are being killed for their testimony. How can tribulation be greater than being killed? One cannot be killed twice. I suspect before the rapture, that will spread to all the world.  Again, chapter 7 versus chapter 13. There is 3 1/2 years between these two chapters.

 

John does not get to the midpoint and the abomination until chapter 11. Don't believe anyone who says Revelation is not in the right order. It is in God given order. any theory that must rearrange that order is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong. So the days of great tribulation spoken of by Jesus will not begin until after the abmination that divides the week. It will get worse when the image is set up and the mark established after chapter 14.

 

Lamad

 

Thank you for your reply. I cannot find where the Bible teaches the multitude in Rev. Ch. 7 is "the raptured church". That is a pre-trib theory without biblical proof, imo. and I believe the Lord's church will be here on earth during this time, as we are now. Therefore, I believe all those who are willing to die for our Lord are those multitudes John speaks of who were protected and came through great tribulation "and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." vs. 14

 

Many Christians today are coming through great tribulation in the Middle East, being protected by our Lord Jesus Christ, so it is reasonable to believe all those "elect"or those trusting in Jesus to save them will be protected. Many will ultimately give their lives, as they are today, but I believe many will be spared and come through great tribulation, multitudes, as the scriptures show, just as Christians have shown us in the past and are doing so even now. Our Lord, in Revelation, urges Christians to endure the tribulation faithfully and patiently because He is concerned for His church on earth during these last days time. We are still living in the age of grace, and God does not have two groups of people, except for those who are saved and those who are not. There is only one "elect" people and they aret those who have accepted God's free gift of salvation through the blood of His Son Jesus Christ on the Cross. There is neither Jew nor Greek, but one body in Christ Jesus.

Be careful of pre-tribulation teachers. They have a habit of saying the word "church" is never found in Revelation from Ch. 4 thru 21, and think because "the" tribulation" period is within these chapters i.e.,6 thru 16, the absence of the word "church" means the "church" is not going to be in "the" tribulation. I find this very disturbing because it takes away the warnings Christ gave to His end-time church. Because of all of the warnings Christ gave to His end time church, it is best to heed the warnings rather to say "we'll be outta here" so no need to worry. Christ's warnings were not written for non-believers, but for His church. During tribulation, (Anti-christ's reign) God's saints on earth (His church) will be struggling to survive and wait it out until Jesus returns for us, and won't have time to pick up a Bible to read the warning signs, so it is best to take heed now.