Is it possible to be a Saint AND a Sinner?

[Floatingaxe]

Nowhere in scripture are those who have received Jesus Christ referred to as sinners. We are changed people, indwelt by Holy Spirit, new creations in Christ, joint heirs with Him, adopted into the forever family of God! He calls us friends! No, we are saints, and we need to adjust our self-concept and our language to reflect that. It just may elevate our esteem in Christ!

 

The more completely we make that change in our thinking and in our speaking, the more easily we will find the strength to rise above the regular downward pull of the world and sin. Knowing who we are in Christ is the first step to winning the battle to overcome.

 

In Christ…

I am chosen by God..............................................................Eph. 1:4

I am adopted by God............................................................Eph 1:5

I am a child of God in His family ...........................................1 John 3:1

I am forgiven by God for all my sins......................................1 John 1:9

I am reconciled to God, in Harmony with Him..........................Rom 5:10

I am seen by God as holy, blameless above reproach..............Col. 1:21,22

I am sealed with God's Holy Spirit..........................................Eph 1:13

I am called to accomplish God's purpose.................................Rom 8:28,30

I am a full citizen among God's people....................................Eph 2:19

I am justified -- declared right in God's sight...........................Rom 5:1

I am sanctified -- set apart by God's Spirit...............................1 Cor 6:11

I am redeemed ---- bought with Christ's blood........................Eph. 1:7

I am cleansed by Christ's blood for all my sin......................1 John 1:7

I am heir of God and a joint-heir with Christ...........................Rom 8:16,17

I am complete in Christ........................................................Col. 2:10

I am an ambassador for Christ..............................................2 Cor. 5:20

I am being conformed to the character of Christ......................Rom 8:29


Thank you Lord, for giving me worth and letting me see I have purpose.
 

[Guest]

Nowhere in scripture are those who have received Jesus Christ referred to as sinners. We are changed people, indwelt by Holy Spirit, new creations in Christ, joint heirs with Him, adopted into the forever family of God! He calls us friends! No, we are saints, and we need to adjust our self-concept and our language to reflect that. It just may elevate our esteem in Christ!

 

The more completely we make that change in our thinking and in our speaking, the more easily we will find the strength to rise above the regular downward pull of the world and sin. Knowing who we are in Christ is the first step to winning the battle to overcome.

 

In Christ…

I am chosen by God..............................................................Eph. 1:4

I am adopted by God............................................................Eph 1:5

I am a child of God in His family ...........................................1 John 3:1

I am forgiven by God for all my sins......................................1 John 1:9

I am reconciled to God, in Harmony with Him..........................Rom 5:10

I am seen by God as holy, blameless above reproach..............Col. 1:21,22

I am sealed with God's Holy Spirit..........................................Eph 1:13

I am called to accomplish God's purpose.................................Rom 8:28,30

I am a full citizen among God's people....................................Eph 2:19

I am justified -- declared right in God's sight...........................Rom 5:1

I am sanctified -- set apart by God's Spirit...............................1 Cor 6:11

I am redeemed ---- bought with Christ's blood........................Eph. 1:7

I am cleansed by Christ's blood for all my sin......................1 John 1:7

I am heir of God and a joint-heir with Christ...........................Rom 8:16,17

I am complete in Christ........................................................Col. 2:10

I am an ambassador for Christ..............................................2 Cor. 5:20

I am being conformed to the character of Christ......................Rom 8:29

Thank you Lord, for giving me worth and letting me see I have purpose.

 

 

Amen~!

 

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10

[missmuffet]

Whoa!We have some serious competition going on here.

[BlessedByTheBest]

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 

 

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

my position in Christ is untouchable then.  i am a saint before God's eyes.

 

 

 

but....how's about this classic dilemma? 

 

Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 

Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 

 

it seems the Apostle Paul made a distinction here between who we are, and our sin natures.

it is not i who sins, but my sinful nature within that sins.  because i am no longer subject to the law of sin and death... right??? 

 

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 

 

Saint or Sinner?  Both?

[Floatingaxe]

When we are saved, our spirits are enlivened and made the dwelling place of God...holy and pure. Our soul (mind, will and emotions---the place where our personality exists, and our choices are made) is not, and neither is our physical body. The mind and body come under the subjection of the Holy Spirit as we learn to obey the word, and are increasingly sanctified, growing in Him.

[nebula]

 

Well, first we need to understand what the word "saint" is. Rather, we should refer back to the word Paul wrote that has been translated as "saint."

 

 

Here is an interesting perspective:

http://biblesuite.com/greek/40.htm

 

The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay).

 

 

~~

 

So then we must ask what is meant by "sinner".

 

Do you mean someone who sins? Who struggles with sin?

 

Or do you mean someone who is unredeemed?

 

hi nebula

 

i like word studies

if we were to follow the law of first mention, we would look to Psalm 106:16

 

Psa 106:16  They envied H7065 Moses H4872 also in the camp, H4264 and Aaron H175 the saint H6918 of the LORD. H3068 

 

<snip>

 

Very good! I forgot that the word "saint" was translated into the Old Testament as well.

 

 

and then there is sinner:

 

Pro 11:31  Behold, H2005 the righteous H6662 shall be recompensed H7999 in the earth: H776 much more H637 H3588 the wicked H7563 and the sinner. H2398 

 

H2398

חטא

châṭâ'

khaw-taw'

A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; by inference to forfeit, lack, expiate, repent, (causatively) lead astray, condemn: - bear the blame, cleanse, commit [sin], by fault, harm he hath done, loss, miss, (make) offend (-er), offer for sin, purge, purify (self), make reconciliation, (cause, make) sin (-ful, -ness), trespassive

 

 

 

--------

so a saint is sacred or clean or pure

 

a sinner is one who misses the mark, or bears the blame, or trespasses.

 

 

as i see it, we will all sin until fully redeemed soul, spirit, and body.

but we are also considered saints by the righteousness imputed to us by faith in Christ.

 

my answer doesn't count! 

 

 

OK, but I am going to have to disagree with how you have interpreted these things.

 

 

Looking at Prov. 11:31:

If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth, How much more the wicked and the sinner!

 

 

Hebrew poetry is based on something called parallelism, where one thought echoes another, either in support or in contrast.

 

In this case, the implication is a contrast.

 

Thus, the righteous are considered separate from "the wicked and the sinner."

 

Thus, can you use this verse to support the claim that a person is both "saint" (righteous) and sinner?

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

Well, first we need to understand what the word "saint" is. Rather, we should refer back to the word Paul wrote that has been translated as "saint."

 

 

Here is an interesting perspective:

http://biblesuite.com/greek/40.htm

 

The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay).

 

 

~~

 

So then we must ask what is meant by "sinner".

 

Do you mean someone who sins? Who struggles with sin?

 

Or do you mean someone who is unredeemed?

 

hi nebula

 

i like word studies

if we were to follow the law of first mention, we would look to Psalm 106:16

 

Psa 106:16  They envied H7065 Moses H4872 also in the camp, H4264 and Aaron H175 the saint H6918 of the LORD. H3068 

 

<snip>

 

Very good! I forgot that the word "saint" was translated into the Old Testament as well.

 

 

and then there is sinner:

 

Pro 11:31  Behold, H2005 the righteous H6662 shall be recompensed H7999 in the earth: H776 much more H637 H3588 the wicked H7563 and the sinner. H2398 

 

H2398

חטא

châṭâ'

khaw-taw'

A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; by inference to forfeit, lack, expiate, repent, (causatively) lead astray, condemn: - bear the blame, cleanse, commit [sin], by fault, harm he hath done, loss, miss, (make) offend (-er), offer for sin, purge, purify (self), make reconciliation, (cause, make) sin (-ful, -ness), trespassive

 

 

 

--------

so a saint is sacred or clean or pure

 

a sinner is one who misses the mark, or bears the blame, or trespasses.

 

 

as i see it, we will all sin until fully redeemed soul, spirit, and body.

but we are also considered saints by the righteousness imputed to us by faith in Christ.

 

my answer doesn't count! 

 

 

OK, but I am going to have to disagree with how you have interpreted these things.

 

 

Looking at Prov. 11:31:

If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth, How much more the wicked and the sinner!

 

 

Hebrew poetry is based on something called parallelism, where one thought echoes another, either in support or in contrast.

 

In this case, the implication is a contrast.

 

Thus, the righteous are considered separate from "the wicked and the sinner."

 

Thus, can you use this verse to support the claim that a person is both "saint" (righteous) and sinner?

 

 

thanks neb, i took a closer look.

 

i don't interpret this implication as a contrast, but a sort of reinforcement.

i see God's providence executing righteous judgement upon both ends of the spectrum concerning sinning.

those who seek righteousness but fall in sin, and the wicked sinner.  they are not separate because of sin, but by their moral disposition.

 

it speaks to God's impartiality, His no respecting of persons.

 

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 

1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

 

regardless, is there a difference between one who is righteous and one who is a saint?

 

Gen 7:1  And the LORD H3068 said H559 unto Noah, H5146 Come H935 thou H859 and all H3605 thy house H1004 into H413 the ark; H8392 for H3588 thee have I seen H7200 righteous H6662 before H6440 me in this H2088 generation. H1755 

 

H6662

צדּיק

tsaddı̂yq

tsad-deek'

From H6663; just: - just, lawful, righteous (man).

 

H6663

צדק

tsâdaq

tsaw-dak'

A primitive root; to be (causatively make) right (in a moral or forensic sense): - cleanse, clear self, (be, do) just (-ice, -ify, -ify self), (be, turn to) righteous (-ness).

 

is a just or lawful man/woman equivalent with sainthood? 

 

what say you?

[nebula]

Blessed -

 

What do you believe makes us holy and righteous in God's eyes - our works and deeds, or the blood of Jesus over us?

[BlessedByTheBest]

Blessed -

 

What do you believe makes us holy and righteous in God's eyes - our works and deeds, or the blood of Jesus over us?

 

 

the blood of Christ neb, as i said here:

 

as i see it, we will all sin until fully redeemed soul, spirit, and body.

but we are also considered saints by the righteousness imputed to us by faith in Christ.

 

i am however conflicted over this, which is why i posed the question.

[nebula]

 

Blessed -

 

What do you believe makes us holy and righteous in God's eyes - our works and deeds, or the blood of Jesus over us?

 

 

the blood of Christ neb, as i said here:

 

as i see it, we will all sin until fully redeemed soul, spirit, and body.

but we are also considered saints by the righteousness imputed to us by faith in Christ.

 

i am however conflicted over this, which is why i posed the question.

 

 

OK.

 

So let's go back to the first part - the blood of Christ is what makes us righteous, makes us a saint.

 

So then it isn't by works.

 

So likewise, what makes us a sinner - our deeds, or our state of being? Does God regard those who are righteous and holy as "sinners"? If He sees us through the blood of Christ, does He see our sin? If not, how can we be "sinners" in His eyes?