No Scripture Identifies the Time for the Rapture

[missmuffet]

 

 

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

 

The Second being:

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,  He was in the beginning with God...  And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us.  Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Here we see that all the Spoken Word and all the Written Word (Bible) is from Jesus the Son.  Everything contained in the Scriptures is of Jesus the Son.  He knows everything which is in the Word (Bible), because He is the Word.

 

Look at the words before Noah entered the Ark.  People eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  They were having a good ole happy time.  Just as people are acting today.  A time of merriment.

 

In Contrast; those during the  70th Week are going through terrible times.  Earthquakes, severe famines, all the grasses burning up, hiding in the rocks, all living creatures in the sea dying, the sun searing people.  Calamity, people being distraught.  People living in fear, was is going to come up next. 

 

This is a totally different environment than what was going on before the flood.  Having a big party.

 

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

This is a difficult subject, everyone has their opinion, they try to base it on Scripture, which is of Jesus.  That is where most fail.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

In your comparison you equate the people outside the ark as Christians, when in fact you should of compared Christians with Noah and his sons who had built the ark, those outside the ark were eating and drinking had no idea what was about to happen, while Noah and his family knew very well what was about to occur

day and hour unknown? yes will the second coming be a surprise for those who believe, according to Paul, no

will it be like a thief in the night? yes! but again according to Paul, the surprised are  those who live in darkness

As the angels stated Christ second coming will be in like manner, considering the whole earth will see the sign of the Son of Man and mourn it will be a huge event

 

 

Micheal

 

My comparison is that of "eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage".  This was the environment of those who were living on earth when Noah and his family entered the Ark,  Then the door was shut.  This same environment exists here on earth now.  The same as when Noah entered the Ark.

 

Can one say that this environment exists during the times of the 2nd to 6th Seals; or the 1st to 6th Trumpets; or the 1st to 7th Bowls.  A lot of very, very hard times going on during these events.  Death and hardship is everywhere.  Not much joy going around.  Not much eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage at this time.

 

So be ready now, not one to seven years from now.  The same environment exists now as before Noah entering the Ark.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Yes Marv  We are living in some pretty dark times.

[iamlamad]

If Christians would read Rev. 20 & 21 they would know what is going to happen in the end times and there would be no "rapture theory".

How do you get off saying the rapture is a "theory?" Did you tear 1 Thes. out of your bible? OF COURSE there will be a rapture, or catching up, to include the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The ONLY way one could believe otherwise is if they IGNORE Paul's epistles. Just so you will always know, Paul's rapture comes LONG before Rev. 20 and 21. So your sentence makes no sense at all. Paul's rapture is PRETRIB, while these two chapters are post trib.

 

Lamad

[iamlamad]

lamad no-one has been to "heaven" and returned

That is your theory, and you are free to believe whatever you choose to believe.

But you will NEVER convince Jessie Duplantis or Gary L Wood, or Marretta Davis (Scenes Beyond the Grave), or Pastor Buck (Angels on Assignment), or Little Victoria (6 Big Big Angels) or Don Piper, (90 Minutes in Heaven) or Jesus, Dr. Eby (caught up into Paradise), Betty Malz, (My glimpse of Eternity), Daniel Ekechukwu, Curtis “Earthquake” Kelley,....the list can go on and on. I have read all of these and more.

 

Did you not realize that personal testimony is a PART OF SCRIPTURE?

 

Of course, you can choose to believe anything......or not believe anything. I see no reason to call these people liars.

 

Lamad

[His Ambassador]

 

If Christians would read Rev. 20 & 21 they would know what is going to happen in the end times and there would be no "rapture theory".

How do you get off saying the rapture is a "theory?" Did you tear 1 Thes. out of your bible? OF COURSE there will be a rapture, or catching up, to include the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The ONLY way one could believe otherwise is if they IGNORE Paul's epistles. Just so you will always know, Paul's rapture comes LONG before Rev. 20 and 21. So your sentence makes no sense at all. Paul's rapture is PRETRIB, while these two chapters are post trib.

 

Lamad

 

When Jesus returns it will happen just as it is described in Rev. 20 & 21.  There is no "rapture" as is commonly taught.  The "Rapture" theory is a false teaching which came about in the middle of the 19th century and assumes things that are not in Paul's teachings.

[RustyAngeL]

Correct we do not know the time of His coming to take His Church, that is why we should live as if today is the day.  Be a light and always be ready to point the way to Christ.

[iamlamad]

 

 

If Christians would read Rev. 20 & 21 they would know what is going to happen in the end times and there would be no "rapture theory".

How do you get off saying the rapture is a "theory?" Did you tear 1 Thes. out of your bible? OF COURSE there will be a rapture, or catching up, to include the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The ONLY way one could believe otherwise is if they IGNORE Paul's epistles. Just so you will always know, Paul's rapture comes LONG before Rev. 20 and 21. So your sentence makes no sense at all. Paul's rapture is PRETRIB, while these two chapters are post trib.

 

Lamad

 

When Jesus returns it will happen just as it is described in Rev. 20 & 21.  There is no "rapture" as is commonly taught.  The "Rapture" theory is a false teaching which came about in the middle of the 19th century and assumes things that are not in Paul's teachings.

 

Sigh! I guess I will have to refresh your mind, for this has certainly slipped away:

 

1 Thes. 4:¹⁵ For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

1 Thes. 5

5 But concerning the times [of the rapture two verses previous?]  and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. ² For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

 

Paul did not write the chapter heading. He JUST wrote of the rapture. He did not leave that subject. He is telling us that the rapture and the Day of the Lord is tied together: one cannot come without the other: the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the day.

 

³ For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

 

There will be a SUDDEN event coming. It will come when people are saying "peace and safety." At this sudden event, some will get DESTRUCTION.

 

⁴ But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

 

So this SUDDEN event will catch those in darkness, and will overtake them as a thief; they will NOT be expecting sudden destruction.

 

⁸ But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. ⁹ For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, ¹⁰ who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

 

Now we see that this SUDDEN event is the rapture itself! Paul never left off writing of the rapture. It will catch some as a thief, because they were not expecting it. Notice, we living in the light, get "salvation" [rapture] and get to "live together with Him" or "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

So the rapture takes place, suddenly, without warning, and catches some as a thief. When the dead in Christ rise, it will cause a worldwide earthquake (See Matthew 27: "the earth did quake .... and the graves were opened). This earthquake when the dead in Christ rise, will be the SUDDEN destruction. The rapture will be the TRIGGER for the signs of the Day of the Lord.

 

Where will this event be in the book of Revelation? Where is the first huge earthquake in Revelation? It is at the 6th seal. That earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising. The rapture then, not seen by John, will be the TRIGGER for the 6th seal, broken in heaven. Then, as we read in Revelation, the sun will turn dark and the moon into blood, as a SIGN the Day is about to begin. The last verse says, "the Day of His wrath has come."

 

The next chapter shows the raptured church, safe in heaven, around the throne. Then with the 7th seal, and the 1st trumpet, the Day of the Lord begins, as well as the 70th week of Daniel.

 

As I said, God is pretrib, John is pretrib, and Paul is pretrib, and they all agree. Jesus comes the next time, to the clouds and calls up His bride. We will spend 7 years plus in heaven, and will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb and the marriage supper, which will be in heaven. Then, we return WITH Christ to earth as seen in Rev. 19. You do understand, chapter 19 events will happen BEFORE chapter 20 events? Jesus does NOT return in chapter 20, He returns in chapter 19.

 

You are about 1900 years off in your theory: PAUL taught a pretrib rapture. So it began with 1 Thes. epistle.

 

Lamad

 

[His Ambassador]

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

You are about 1900 years off in your theory: PAUL taught a pretrib rapture. So it began with 1 Thes. epistle.

 

Lamad

 

Jesus' "Coming" is describes in Rev. 20 & 21.  Paul did not teach a "rapture".  The verses you quote are what those who created that theory SAY Paul was teaching. 

 

 

[Montana Marv]

 

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

You are about 1900 years off in your theory: PAUL taught a pretrib rapture. So it began with 1 Thes. epistle.

 

Lamad

 

Jesus' "Coming" is describes in Rev. 20 & 21.  Paul did not teach a "rapture".  The verses you quote are what those who created that theory SAY Paul was teaching. 

 

 

 

His Ambas

 

But our going is described in 1 Thes 4:16-18 -  The dead in Christ rise first, then we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  This is the harpozo, the Rapture.  Taught in the 1st Century, In Scripture, God breathed.

 

Paul did teach about the Rapture.  We meet our Lord in the air, not here on the earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[iamlamad]

 

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

You are about 1900 years off in your theory: PAUL taught a pretrib rapture. So it began with 1 Thes. epistle.

 

Lamad

 

Jesus' "Coming" is describes in Rev. 20 & 21.  Paul did not teach a "rapture".  The verses you quote are what those who created that theory SAY Paul was teaching. 

 

 

 

If you wish to play word games, take them somewhere else. Rapture comes from the Latin word raptura, from Latin raptus, which is a translation of the Greek verb "harpazō" from which we get  "caught up." 

 

1 Thes. 4

¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

 

Do you see those two words, "caught up?" That is what we call today the rapture of the bride. No worries, since you don't believe in it, God will make absolutely sure you are not one that will be caught up. YOu will be left behind to see the Beast of Rev. 13.

 

Rev. 20 & 21 search on "coming" results:

 

Revelation 20:1

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 

Revelation 21:2

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

There you have it. An angel coming....and the New Jerusalem coming. Seems you missed it yet again. There IS NO coming of our Lord in Rev. 20 or 21.  Let me help you, for it is very clear you need help:

 

Rev 19

¹¹ Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. ¹² His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. ¹³ He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. ¹⁴ And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

 

This is His coming. Destination? Israel, Middle East, planet earth.  He comes about 7 year previous to this, to get His bride, now here He is coming WITH His bride, and the angels.  For the posttribbers, there is no rapture here at His coming on the white horse.  It came 7 years previous.

 

Bottom line? Pretribbers can read simple English. Paul described VERY CLEARLY a catching away of the Bride of Christ. We call it the rapture of the bride. Anyone can be ready and be snatched up to meet Him in the air. On the other hand, anyone can refuse, and be left behind.  Anyone can follow Luke 21:36 and PRAY to be found worthy to excape what is coming. But sadly, many are confused, and cannot believe in the catching away of the bride. They will be left behind. Then, they will be beheaded. They will be OVERCOME by the Beast.

 

Lamad

[His Ambassador]

Rev. 20: 6  "....and Christ will rule with them for a thousand years."  How can He rule if He doesn't come?  Rev. 21: (After the millennial Kingdom)"....God's home is now with His people.  He will live with them, and they will be His own.  Yes God will make His home among His people."  How can He do that if He hasn't come?