firestormx Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Honestly, I think perspective, upbringing, and culture come into play as well. On this side of Christ's 2nd coming I don't think we'll be in agreement on everything. I believe we can agree that Jesus is the Son of God, who died and rose again three days later, Jesus is the only way to salvation and restored relationship with God, and the Bible is God's Holy Word. I think we just need to focus more on dealing with each other... Grace comes to us in two dimensions: vertical and horizontal. Vertical grace centers on our relationships with God. Freeing us from the demands and the condemnation of the Mosaic law, vertical grace gives us hope to the sinner by not only providing eternal life but also freeing us from any requirements to pay back God. Vertical grace is truly amazing! Horizontal grace centers around our relationship with others. Relieved from our guilt and shame, we walk in grace, we’re free from the tyranny of pleasing people. We’re free from their demands and expectations, and they’re free from ours. When we can demonstrate horizontal grace, we accept others as they are. We have no personal agenda to make anyone be someone he or she is not. Horizontal grace is truly charming! Differences are inevitable. How we handle our differences to me is supposed to set us apart from the world. God bless, GE Good points in this response. Something to think about for sure. I guess for me, I've always assumed that Christ is/should be the bridge that covers all differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 While I understand your point, I honestly believe there is too much disunity in the body of Christ. Most of the time you can't even tell the world from the church. So much tradition and the world have come into the church that there is almost no difference. Just my opinion (which is not a statement of fact) but I think there's a difference between the Body of Christ and a body of believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 While I understand your point, I honestly believe there is too much disunity in the body of Christ. Most of the time you can't even tell the world from the church. So much tradition and the world have come into the church that there is almost no difference. Just my opinion (which is not a statement of fact) but I think there's a difference between the Body of Christ and a body of believers. Really? How can that be? do you mean the literal body of Christ? Isn't the body of believers what makes up the body of Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2013 Honestly, I think perspective, upbringing, and culture come into play as well. On this side of Christ's 2nd coming I don't think we'll be in agreement on everything. I believe we can agree that Jesus is the Son of God, who died and rose again three days later, Jesus is the only way to salvation and restored relationship with God, and the Bible is God's Holy Word. I think we just need to focus more on dealing with each other... Grace comes to us in two dimensions: vertical and horizontal. Vertical grace centers on our relationships with God. Freeing us from the demands and the condemnation of the Mosaic law, vertical grace gives us hope to the sinner by not only providing eternal life but also freeing us from any requirements to pay back God. Vertical grace is truly amazing! Horizontal grace centers around our relationship with others. Relieved from our guilt and shame, we walk in grace, we’re free from the tyranny of pleasing people. We’re free from their demands and expectations, and they’re free from ours. When we can demonstrate horizontal grace, we accept others as they are. We have no personal agenda to make anyone be someone he or she is not. Horizontal grace is truly charming! Differences are inevitable. How we handle our differences to me is supposed to set us apart from the world. God bless, GE Good points in this response. Something to think about for sure. I guess for me, I've always assumed that Christ is/should be the bridge that covers all differences. I think we tend to compare ourselves to others and in a way seek to control others (so that we can somehow renconcile our world view and/or beliefs). That is the natural tendency. So therefor why we as Christians don't always agree on everything... I. Two Strong Tendencies that Nullify Grace A. Comparing ourselves to others Examples… Musical Tastes Income Marital Status Number of children B. Seeking to control others Intimidation/Judgment We need to stop trying to be in charge of others lives (Or the Holy Spirit for that matter) Playing the King of the Mountain – don’t do it. I'd also add acting as a victim or the whole victim mentality for Item B. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Honestly, I think perspective, upbringing, and culture come into play as well. On this side of Christ's 2nd coming I don't think we'll be in agreement on everything. I believe we can agree that Jesus is the Son of God, who died and rose again three days later, Jesus is the only way to salvation and restored relationship with God, and the Bible is God's Holy Word. I think we just need to focus more on dealing with each other... Grace comes to us in two dimensions: vertical and horizontal. Vertical grace centers on our relationships with God. Freeing us from the demands and the condemnation of the Mosaic law, vertical grace gives us hope to the sinner by not only providing eternal life but also freeing us from any requirements to pay back God. Vertical grace is truly amazing! Horizontal grace centers around our relationship with others. Relieved from our guilt and shame, we walk in grace, we’re free from the tyranny of pleasing people. We’re free from their demands and expectations, and they’re free from ours. When we can demonstrate horizontal grace, we accept others as they are. We have no personal agenda to make anyone be someone he or she is not. Horizontal grace is truly charming! Differences are inevitable. How we handle our differences to me is supposed to set us apart from the world. God bless, GE Good points in this response. Something to think about for sure. I guess for me, I've always assumed that Christ is/should be the bridge that covers all differences. I think we tend to compare ourselves to others and in a way seek to control others (so that we can somehow renconcile our world view and/or beliefs). That is the natural tendency. So therefor why we as Christians don't always agree on everything... I. Two Strong Tendencies that Nullify Grace A. Comparing ourselves to others Examples… Musical Tastes Income Marital Status Number of children B. Seeking to control others Intimidation/Judgment We need to stop trying to be in charge of others lives (Or the Holy Spirit for that matter) Playing the King of the Mountain – don’t do it. I'd also add acting as a victim or the whole victim mentality for Item B. God bless, GE I understand what you are saying this way. The beginning of unity starts with our personal and individual humility before Christ. Focus on ourselves and not others. Esteem others more highly than ourselves. Is this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 While I understand your point, I honestly believe there is too much disunity in the body of Christ. Most of the time you can't even tell the world from the church. So much tradition and the world have come into the church that there is almost no difference. Just my opinion (which is not a statement of fact) but I think there's a difference between the Body of Christ and a body of believers. Really? How can that be? do you mean the literal body of Christ? Isn't the body of believers what makes up the body of Christ? I see a rabbit trail up ahead. If a body of believers is recognized as the Body of Christ, then all who believe would be a part of that body. Mormons, JWs, Universalists, etc. would be a part of the Body of Christ. The bible states that there should be no divisions amongst us. Denominations are a division and there are over 30,000 different christian denominations. All believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 While I understand your point, I honestly believe there is too much disunity in the body of Christ. Most of the time you can't even tell the world from the church. So much tradition and the world have come into the church that there is almost no difference. Just my opinion (which is not a statement of fact) but I think there's a difference between the Body of Christ and a body of believers. Really? How can that be? do you mean the literal body of Christ? Isn't the body of believers what makes up the body of Christ? I see a rabbit trail up ahead. If a body of believers is recognized as the Body of Christ, then all who believe would be a part of that body. Mormons, JWs, Universalists, etc. would be a part of the Body of Christ. The bible states that there should be no divisions amongst us. Denominations are a division and there are over 30,000 different christian denominations. All believers. Thanks for the explanation. I can agree with what you said. I guess from my point of view, I've always thought of all true believers as a part of the body of Christ and the denomination didn't matter. I guess the difference from my point of view is, it's not the denomination that means your a part of the body of Christ, but your heart and relationship with Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think we tend to compare ourselves to others and in a way seek to control others (so that we can somehow renconcile our world view and/or beliefs). That is the natural tendency. So therefor why we as Christians don't always agree on everything... I. Two Strong Tendencies that Nullify Grace A. Comparing ourselves to others Examples… Musical Tastes Income Marital Status Number of children B. Seeking to control others Intimidation/Judgment We need to stop trying to be in charge of others lives (Or the Holy Spirit for that matter) Playing the King of the Mountain – don’t do it. I'd also add acting as a victim or the whole victim mentality for Item B. God bless, GE I understand what you are saying this way. The beginning of unity starts with our personal and individual humility before Christ. Focus on ourselves and not others. Esteem others more highly than ourselves. Is this right? Exactly brother in bold. I think you're starting to see my heart on this brother. We are responsible for our actions, thoughts, and words. God has showered (and continues to) us with grace immeasurable - adoption as sons and daughters of God (into His very family). With family you don't always like the person. But you do love them even if it's deep down inside. Loving someone doesn't always mean agreeing on everything. It also means we give them grace to learn and grow - even if it is at a different pace than what we're accostumed to. Ultimately we have to trust that God is working in their lives. We are not responsible for other people's walk with the Lord. If we love God the result will be we'll love people. II. Four Biblical Guidelines that Personify Grace (Romans 14) A. Remember that accepting others is basic to letting God grow them. B. Releasing others allows the Lord to direct the details we're not qualified to fill. C. Freeing others means we never assume a role (of the Holy Spirit). D. Loving others requires us to express our liberty wisely. What was the taboo issue of the day in the Church in Romans 14? The big issue of the day was eating food and in particular meat offered to idols. Meat would be sold on the market that was offered to an idol. Newer Believers would be exasperated that those who’d been in the faith longer had no issue with food offered to idols. See: Romans 14:1-19 (NLT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks for the explanation. I can agree with what you said. I guess from my point of view, I've always thought of all true believers as a part of the body of Christ and the denomination didn't matter. I guess the difference from my point of view is, it's not the denomination that means your a part of the body of Christ, but your heart and relationship with Jesus Christ. John 4 19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” I believe the true Body of Christ is a spiritual body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think we tend to compare ourselves to others and in a way seek to control others (so that we can somehow renconcile our world view and/or beliefs). That is the natural tendency. So therefor why we as Christians don't always agree on everything... I. Two Strong Tendencies that Nullify Grace A. Comparing ourselves to others Examples… Musical Tastes Income Marital Status Number of children B. Seeking to control others Intimidation/Judgment We need to stop trying to be in charge of others lives (Or the Holy Spirit for that matter) Playing the King of the Mountain – don’t do it. I'd also add acting as a victim or the whole victim mentality for Item B. God bless, GE I understand what you are saying this way. The beginning of unity starts with our personal and individual humility before Christ. Focus on ourselves and not others. Esteem others more highly than ourselves. Is this right? Exactly brother in bold. I think you're starting to see my heart on this brother. We are responsible for our actions, thoughts, and words. God has showered (and continues to) us with grace immeasurable - adoption as sons and daughters of God (into His very family). With family you don't always like the person. But you do love them even if it's deep down inside. Loving someone doesn't always mean agreeing on everything. It also means we give them grace to learn and grow - even if it is at a different pace than what we're accostumed to. Ultimately we have to trust that God is working in their lives. We are not responsible for other people's walk with the Lord. If we love God the result will be we'll love people. II. Four Biblical Guidelines that Personify Grace (Romans 14) A. Remember that accepting others is basic to letting God grow them. B. Releasing others allows the Lord to direct the details we're not qualified to fill. C. Freeing others means we never assume a role (of the Holy Spirit). D. Loving others requires us to express our liberty wisely. What was the taboo issue of the day in the Church in Romans 14? The big issue of the day was eating food and in particular meat offered to idols. Meat would be sold on the market that was offered to an idol. Newer Believers would be exasperated that those who’d been in the faith longer had no issue with food offered to idols. See: Romans 14:1-19 (NLT) I was speaking to my brother about this subject last night and he was making similar comments. Between the 2 of you it helped me see what your saying. Also, since 2 people, who don't know each other have effectively said the same thing to me in the span of 12 hours, maybe God is trying to teach me something. May he open my heart and understand that I may see the truth of Christ, In Jesus name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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