Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely true

[veryberry]

Excellent!

[Guest DRS81]

It's not true.  In fact, it is a demonic lie.

 

It is only true when applied in its proper context.

 

For example, you posted that those who BELIEVE has everlasting life ... but we both know that belief alone CANNOT save.

 

Actually, the demonic lie is the Hitler teaching that only perfection gets us to heaven, and that's simply not the case. Once you believe and accept Jesus into your heart, the Holy Spirit then seals you until death. Blessings.

[Donibm]

 

Don, when is a believer ever called a "pig" or a "dog"? It clearly says the pig was washed, and the dog returned to his own vomit. It does not say a sheep was washed. Christ calls us his sheep, and he will always rescue his sheep that may stray. When a believer sins he is not "turning back". To turn back is to deny the faith, or reject Christ as the only way. No, when a believer sins, (and he will) he breaks "fellowship" with his Father, but he is not lost or left to his own strength to stay saved.

 

1Jn 2:1  My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 

1Jn 2:2  He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 

 

If you as a believer say you do not sin, you are not being truthful with us or yourself, Don. 

 

1Jn 1:8  If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 

 

I also feel you err in the thought that the world cannot "taste the heavenly gift". It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict the world of sin and to present the truth of the Gospel to the unregenerate man. It is the only way he or she can hear and make a decision for Christ.

 

The verse from Hebrews cannot be talking about a genuine believer because the Spirit goes on to make a distinction in the following verses:

 

Heb 6:9  Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case--the things that have to do with salvation. 

 

John says those that leave us 'WERE NEVER OF US"

 

1Jn 2:19  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 

 

Believers have the guarantee that they will overcome. There is no middle ground, you are not partially saved, you are either saved or you are not. Faith that is genuine will endure until the end, it will overcome the world. In Christ the believer is an overcomer. Nothing is left to chance, we will most definitely never perish, and we will defeat the world.

 

Joh 10:26  but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 

Joh 10:27  My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 

Joh 10:28  I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 

 

1Jn 5:4  for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 

1Jn 5:5  Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I dont' know.  I've never called a saint a "pig" or a "dog'.  But the context of the Scripture is clear - it is WASHED and returns to the MUD.  You can distract yourself with "pig" if you want.  Not a single saint was some 'clean or worthy' person.  ALL of us were unclean, unworthy, filthy, naked and ashamed.  Every single one of us.  So, yes, effectively ... pigs.  But WASHED.  And Peter's point is that it returned to the mud.  THAT is what he is focusing on ... clearly.

 

 

2)

I don't recall suggesting that a believer never sins again after converting.  But Scriptures are clear - he that COMMITTETH as sin, will be cast off as hypocrites are.  This does not mean someone caught in a sin when Chrsit comes, it is talking about one who sins over and over and over - unrepentant and deliberate sins.  Such a person has indeed fallen away, and will indeed be cast off into eternal damnation.  Don't kid yourself.

 

 

3)

You can believe that I err in the world not being able to taste of the Holy Spirit if you want ... but I do not err.  Scriptures are clear: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:" (John 14)  At no time, has the holy Spirit been promised to unbeleivers.  At no time.

 

Further, Peter is very clear and so are his writings:

 

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

 

Peter is clearly talking about those who repent, live for Christ, but fall away.  NO SINNER can escape the pollutions of the world in the absense of repentance.

 

 

4)

Hebrews is clearly talking about the Christian.

 

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame"

 

It's so very clear.  Hebrews 6:9 is talking about the saints who have NOT fallen.  It does not include those who have.  You have missed that too.

 

 

5)

1 John was talking about THAT group of men.  There have been false Christians since the very beginning ... to this very day.  There is a distinctive difference in a FALSE CHRISTIAN and a brother who have FALLEN BACK into the world.

 

There is a very, very, very distinctive difference.  John is NOT talking about the Brethren who were saved and fell back into the world, he is talking about the PSUEDOCHRISTIANS who have never been.

 

Gnostics

Nicolaitans

Jehovahs Witnesses

Hebrew Israelites

Rasta

... other Christian groups (who I am deliberately not mentioning now).

 

They aren't Christains to BEGIN with.  Very different from the brother who was on fire for God, fell into temptation and pressure and trials and left the fold.  Big difference.

 

 

6)

I never suggested a middle ground.  And the WAY to overcome is given, not a promise that all who repent will follow that and overcome.   

 

"REMAIN in Me, and I will remain in you" - Jesus

 

I've already stated that "remain" is a present participle.  You must CONTINUE to obey and serve.  Jesus also made it clear in the same breathe that any who do not REMAIN, will be treated as an old branch - picked up and cast into the fire.

 

Jesus made it clear that ALL who put their hand to the plow, and looks back, are not worthy of Him.

 

This is not to say that they cannot find Salvation again.  Even the prodigal son was called "dead" and then "alive again", but he was welcomed home also.  But he HAD to return ... otherwise, he would have died in his sins ... and to die on ones sins IS to see damnation.

 

... you apparently didn't touch those Scriptures ... and I'm doing this from my job, RUSHING for the second time in this thread, ... I am not nearly exhausted the Scriptures that deal exactly with the SAINT who turned back to sin.

[saved34]

I dont' know.  I've never called a saint a "pig" or a "dog'.  But the context of the Scripture is clear - it is WASHED and returns to the MUD.  You can distract yourself with "pig" if you want.  Not a single saint was some 'clean or worthy' person.  ALL of us were unclean, unworthy, filthy, naked and ashamed.  Every single one of us.  So, yes, effectively ... pigs.  But WASHED.  And Peter's point is that it returned to the mud.  THAT is what he is focusing on ... clearly.

 

The "it" that was washed was still a pig. The believer is a new creation in Christ, not a reformation of his old self. The person in question was not genuine which is why the Spirit is careful to label him or her a washed pig. Surely we are all filthy sinners, but God loved us and paid the price for us even while we were dead in sins. In fact scripture says we are precious jewels to him apart from any merit of our own. Not pigs or dogs. Choice words like that are always given to false religionist like the pharisees who Christ actually called a "brood of vipers". 

 

 

Eph 2:4  But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 

Eph 2:5  made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 

 

 

I don't recall suggesting that a believer never sins again after converting.  But Scriptures are clear - he that COMMITTETH as sin, will be cast off as hypocrites are.  This does not mean someone caught in a sin when Chrsit comes, it is talking about one who sins over and over and over - unrepentant and deliberate sins.  Such a person has indeed fallen away, and will indeed be cast off into eternal damnation.  Don't kid yourself.

 

What does scripture really say about one who practices sin? It does not say he was saved and then he loses his salvation, it clearly says:

 

1Jn 3:6  No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 

1Jn 3:7  Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 

1Jn 3:8  The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 

1Jn 3:9  No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 

 

Two main points that stick out like a sore thumb, the person who lives a lifestyle of sin "HAS neither seen him or known him" (not saved) and "No one born of God will practice sin". Why people insist on trying to enforce these verses to say you can sin away your salvation is beyond me. 

 

 

You can believe that I err in the world not being able to taste of the Holy Spirit if you want ... but I do not err.  Scriptures are clear: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:" (John 14)  At no time, has the holy Spirit been promised to unbeleivers.  At no time.

not err.  Scriptures are clear: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:" (John 14)  At no time, has the holy Spirit been promised to unbeleivers.  At no time.

[enoob57]

One of the testing of the s(S)pirit in this regard is- are you being driven to obey

God or are you being lead to obey God? It is a simple examination: if driven you are

of Law looking for justification... if lead you are of Grace and the debt of the gift

of Christ is ever before you in Love! Love, Steven

[saved34]

It's so very clear.  Hebrews 6:9 is talking about the saints who have NOT fallen.  It does not include those who have.  You have missed that too.

 

No brother, the Spirit makes a clear distinction between "those who fall away" and "those who possess "better things...and things that accompany salvation". The book of Hebrews was written to address a real danger of many who renounced a profession of Christ and actually went back to the Old ways of animal sacrifice and worship under the Old covenant. The Spirit explains that to do so is much more dangerous than those who had rejected the Law of Moses. To draw back is not simply committing a sin (drinking, fornication, cursing, lying, etc) but the ultimate sin of unbelief and rejecting the truth that Christ is the only means of salvation. This is why the Spirit says "there is no more or no other sacrifice for sins, many were turning from the truth of Christ and seeking out other means to appease God. (Apostasy)

 

Heb 10:26  If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 

 

1 John was talking about THAT group of men.  There have been false Christians since the very beginning ... to this very day.  There is a distinctive difference in a FALSE CHRISTIAN and a brother who have FALLEN BACK into the world.

 

Agreed, 1 John was talking about false brothers. A genuine brother who falls in sin, if he does not judge himself, will be chastened of God, not lost. In fact we are instructed to restore a fallen brother or sister. Christ said he will not lose one of his sheep. He'll go get any straying sheep. There are no scriptures that says a Saint of God can "sin away his or her salvation". We have the promise that we are forgiven for all of our sins because of Christ and the riches of God's grace (salvation) and that is we confess our sins he is faithful (every single time) and Just (we can count on it) to forgive us and clean us. (fellowship). Your sin can never out pace grace, you are no longer under the Law so sin has no grounds to condemn you, God has Justified you so who will judge you? Christ paid the price in full and have given us the Holy Spirit as a seal until he comes back for us, who is going to unseal you? You are born again, a literal new spiritual birth by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, is God going to abort you if you sin too much? How many sins does it take for one to lose all of the Spiritual blessings that God has given us in Christ. We are literally one Spirit with Christ, and seated with him at the right hand of the Father right now. When a man tells me he can "lose" salvation, he tells me he or she is a bit ignorant to what God has really done for us. 

 

Rom 8:33  Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 

Rom 8:34  Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 

 

Eph 1:13  And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 

Eph 1:14  who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory. 

 

Eph 2:5  made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 

Eph 2:6  And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 

 

I never suggested a middle ground.  And the WAY to overcome is given, not a promise that all who repent will follow that and overcome

 

I'm sorry brother but Scripture does not simply make a "suggested way", it clearly says:

 

1Jn 5:4  for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 

 

Peter says of our birth that it is of an incorruptible seed. It cannot perish because we are born from God's word( the Gospel)

 

1Pe 1:23  For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

 

It's very simple, if you are born again (and you must be in order to be saved) you have God's promise that you will overcome the world. 

 

"REMAIN in Me, and I will remain in you" - Jesus

 

I'm sorry brother, but that is a huge misquote of scripture. It changes the meaning something fierce if our Lord actually said that. What he said was:

 

Joh 15:4  Remain in me, as I also remain in you. 

 

The believers fruitfulness is in question, this is all fully explained in the Epistles as we are given a deeper explanation of what it means to "abide" in our Lord, and bear fruit. John 15 is not salvific more so than presenting a truth on the secret to the believers life. Bearing fruit is not a stipulation to being saved, it is a result of being saved.

 

I've already stated that "remain" is a present participle.  You must CONTINUE to obey and serve.  Jesus also made it clear in the same breathe that any who do not REMAIN, will be treated as an old branch - picked up and cast into the fire.

 

 

Not the fire of hell, but the fire of Judgment for his or her works or fruitfulness. 

 

 

 

 

1Co 3:11  For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 

1Co 3:12  Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—

1Co 3:13  each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 

1Co 3:14  If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 

1Co 3:15  If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 

 

 

Jesus made it clear that ALL who put their hand to the plow, and looks back, are not worthy of Him.

 

When a believer sins, he is not "looking back". He is caught in a fault, or he may have deliberately done so. Christ is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse him or her if they sin. "Looking back" means Apostasy and that is more than just sinning, it is a renouncement of salvation through Christ alone. A genuine believer will never look back, even in his darkest hours. 

 

Heb 10:39  But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 

 

This is not to say that they cannot find Salvation again.  Even the prodigal son was called "dead" and then "alive again", but he was welcomed home also.  But he HAD to return ... otherwise, he would have died in his sins ... and to die on ones sins IS to see damnation.

 

Find salvation again? That is an impossibility. You would have to crucify Christ again to do that. You are saved once. You are perfected in Christ once for all. In your daily walk or sanctification process you get your feet defiled, but you are clean as far as salvation for all eternity(Justified). If a Christian could die in his or her sins, that would mean Christ died in vain, and that his precious blood was not enough to pay for those sins. 

 

Heb 10:14  For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified

 

My apologies for such a long post, but I wanted to address most of your post. 

[Godsman2014]

Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely True. The Holy Bible has many verses or passages that prove this. Here are just a few. There are many more.

 

Jesus Christ who is God said:

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

If someone has everlasting life, then they could never be damned. If not, they did not have everlasting life but potentially had everlasting life. The verse would say, “might have everlasting life.” Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie especially with the double verily.

 

Jesus also said:

 

John 3:14-18

¹⁴ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

¹⁵ That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

¹⁷ For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

¹⁸ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Verse 15 and 16 say the same thing and by the same logic prove eternal security. Both also emphatically claim, “should not perish” which again proves eternal security. In verse 18, Jesus Christ says that they are not condemned. All again prove eternal security.

 

Jesus Christ also said:

 

John 11:25-26

²⁵ Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

²⁶ And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

In verse 26, Jesus Christ said that they shall never die. Surely you believe God.

 

Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, wrote:

 

Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

If your sealed till the day of redemption, you could not be damned.

 

In the following verse, Jesus says He is with the saved and will never leave them. How could they ever go to hell?

 

Hebrews 13:5

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

Jesus Christ the Lord also said:

 

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

 

If someone has “eternal life,” then they could never be damned. If not, they did not have eternal life but potentially had eternal life. Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie. Again Jesus Christ is emphatic that “they shall never perish.” Obviously no man can pluck them out of Jesus’ hand or His Father’s hand.

 

The apostle John wrote the following. How can you know that you have eternal life if it is only a maybe?

 

1 John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

The next passage, written by Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, says, “are saved,” not might be saved.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

Potentially damned could not be salvation as written by Paul in the following passage.

 

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

Paul also wrote:

Romans 3:21-26

 

²¹ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

²² Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

²³ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

²⁴ Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

²⁵ Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

²⁶ To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

The following words spoken by Jesus Christ again prove once saved always saved.

 

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

Before the rapture, for those that are saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, there are only 2 possibilities and only one outcome. If they die before the rapture, they get a glorified body and are forever with the Lord. If they are alive at the rapture, they get a glorified body and are forever with the Lord.

 

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

The above sampling absolutely proves that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that you think shows otherwise is just your mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading.

 

From the above, we are assured by God Almighty the Saviour that if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved forever. Those that are saved through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood have all their sins paid for by that blood. They have all their sins forgiven by faith in His atoning blood. God will not remember their sins. Therefore, no passage of damnation or condemnation applies to those saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

            Those that have not believed by faith alone are not saved. None of their sins are paid for, forgiven, or forgotten.  Every passage of damnation or condemnation applies to them. Many of these quote the very passages that condemn themselves.

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark

Amen!