Speaking in tongues 2

[OneLight]

I would be very interested to see where in scripture He tells us that tongues has ceased. I am not interested in human logic, but scripture.

 

The very fact that Paul discouraged that type of practice, and his subsequent letters indicated in the OP do not include them along with the entire Bible are very good proof that it was a local phenomenon observed in the notorious Corinth! He also hints at its ceasing--when, a matter of discerment.

 

 

Can you supply the scripture you are referring to?

 

Everything cannot be provided through Scripture that is limited.(John 21:25) Many were lost and destroyed before Canon was decided. For that main reason  Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to discern the truth even though Scripture existed at that time.

If you have not experiences someone speaking in tongues that were from God, then you have missed a real blessing. Who do you think give tongues if not the Holy Spirit? I will agree that I have heard false tongues. I have also have heard real tongues and was bless from this. I will also say that there are those who do not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit nor scripture, but that does not mean tongues are not real.

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

G. In a public setting two to three at the most are to speak in tongues and there must be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation we are instructed not to speak in tongues.

²⁶ What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

J. Tongues are not prohibited as long as there is order.

³⁹ Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. ⁴⁰ But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Please receive this in the same spirit of love that it was intended.

God bless,

GE

These two passages must conclude to one point of unity... Love, Steven

 

 

I think I agree. What do you mean by one point of unity brother?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

The entire Bible was written by God, so the words of Jesus don't supersede other scriptures.  They are in reality all the words of God. 

 

 

This is a very good point brother.

 

It may be worthwhile to consider Gospel of John 3:1-21 and especially John 4:21-24 before this deduction.

 

Not sure what you mean KT. What are you wanting to consider with theis passage in John 3?

 

John 3:1-21

The New Birth

3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. ² This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

 

³ Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

⁴ Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

 

⁵ Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ⁶ That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ⁷ Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

⁹ Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

 

¹⁰ Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? ¹¹ Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. ¹² If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? ¹³ No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.^[a]14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, ¹⁵ that whoever believes in Him should not perish but^[b]have eternal life. ¹⁶ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ¹⁷ For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

¹⁸ “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ¹⁹ And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. ²¹ But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

The entire Bible was written by God, so the words of Jesus don't supersede other scriptures.  They are in reality all the words of God. 

 

 

This is a very good point brother.

 

It may be worthwhile to consider Gospel of John 3:1-21 and especially John 4:21-24 before this deduction.

 

 

Again not sure what you mean KT. What are you wanting to consider with theis passage in John 3?

 

John 4:1-38

 

A Samaritan Woman Meets Her Messiah

4 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John ² (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), ³ He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. ⁴ But He needed to go through Samaria.

 

⁵ So He came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. ⁶ Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

 

⁷ A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” ⁸ For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.

 

⁹ Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

 

¹⁰ Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

¹¹ The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? ¹² Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”

 

¹³ Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, ¹⁴ but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

 

¹⁵ The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”

¹⁶ Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”

 

¹⁷ The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.”

 

Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ ¹⁸ for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”

 

¹⁹ The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. ²⁰ Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

 

²¹ Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. ²² You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. ²³ But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. ²⁴ God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

²⁵ The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

 

²⁶ Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

 

The Whitened Harvest

²⁷ And at this point His disciples came, and they marveled that He talked with a woman; yet no one said, “What do You seek?” or, “Why are You talking with her?”

 

²⁸ The woman then left her waterpot, went her way into the city, and said to the men, ²⁹ “Come, see a Man who told me all things that I ever did. Could this be the Christ?” ³⁰ Then they went out of the city and came to Him.

 

³¹ In the meantime His disciples urged Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”

 

³² But He said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”

 

³³ Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?”

 

³⁴ Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. ³⁵ Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! ³⁶ And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. ³⁷ For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ ³⁸ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

[enoob57]

 

 

 

G. In a public setting two to three at the most are to speak in tongues and there must be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation we are instructed not to speak in tongues.

²⁶ What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

J. Tongues are not prohibited as long as there is order.

³⁹ Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. ⁴⁰ But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Please receive this in the same spirit of love that it was intended.

God bless,

GE

These two passages must conclude to one point of unity... Love, Steven

 

 

I think I agree. What do you mean by one point of unity brother?

God bless,

GE

 

There are no conflicts within Scripture and where the prohibition of interpreter in the public forum

so also not to forbid the use of tongues also comes the prohibition of the public forum...

Thus bring precept upon precept line upon line to the unity God's Word demands.

Love, Steven

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

 

G. In a public setting two to three at the most are to speak in tongues and there must be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation we are instructed not to speak in tongues.

²⁶ What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

J. Tongues are not prohibited as long as there is order.

³⁹ Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. ⁴⁰ But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Please receive this in the same spirit of love that it was intended.

God bless,

GE

These two passages must conclude to one point of unity... Love, Steven

 

 

I think I agree. What do you mean by one point of unity brother?

God bless,

GE

 

There are no conflicts within Scripture and where the prohibition of interpreter in the public forum

so also not to forbid the use of tongues also comes the prohibition of the public forum...

Thus bring precept upon precept line upon line to the unity God's Word demands.

Love, Steven

 

 

Yes, I thought this is what you were saying. I agree brother.

[rjp34652]

Paul lists spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12-14, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. Of the three, 1 Corinthians is generally believed to have been penned first, Romans second, and Ephesians last (in order of the letters we are speaking of here).

 

The conditions in Corinth was worst. To bring order there, Paul came up with a condition of interpretation(that is not found in the book of Acts or elsewhere) hoping that speaking of unknown tongue prompted by person's spirit would cease as church grew in spirituality as it was sign meant for unbelievers.

 

I believe it ceased there soon as people took the advice of Paul to prefer prophesying. We don't see this phenomenon of speaking in an unknown tongue either in Rome or Ephesian subsequently, and it is not listed in the corresponding epistles.

 

You believe it ceased?   Some say miracles and divine intervention of God in the lives of believers in general and the church as a whole also ceased.   These persons are either lacking in faith or possibly have made themselves disciples of the devil.

 

I believe miracles have not ceased.   If they had, I'd be dead now a half dozen times over and certain members of my family as well.   That miracles and divine providence operates in the lives of believers is a matter which has been attested to daily since the days the scripture was written.   I believe those who deny it, deny the power of God and true religion.  They have convinced themselves of a lie.

 

As to the purpose of tongues, I believe it was and remains a spiritual testimony of the presence and power of the holy spirit.

 

Go to the book of acts where the first record of tongues is recorded.    The problem at the time was that there were different sects or groups who followed different teachers.  John the Baptist had such a group.   Evidence for this is recorded in the gospel account wherein John sent a few of his disciples to ask Jesus if Jesus was the One predicted to come into the world.   As John's ministry withered and died a question arose as to why.   Jesus' light and ministry was being blessed by God and John's had been concluded.  Yet even after the day of Pentecost, there remains many disciples who did NOT know the OT and did not know whether there was a Holy Spirit or not.

 

I believe ignorance of the existence and power of the Holy Spirit is the true issue here, not a cheap magician's act or circus performance.   As it was then, so it is now, that many people who have believed in Christianity have NOT been baptized into Christ.   They may have been dipped or sprinkled in water and may have filled out a membership card, but that does not equate to receiving Christ into their lives via the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

It is not automatic.   God expects us to know what is going on.   God expects us to know that which we have been given and that is why the Holy Spirit came upon the people recorded in the Bible with such power.  They simply didn't know.  Period.   God showed them.

 

Today many have been instructed, but resist both the power and the truth of religion.  God continues to act in the world in miraculous ways.  God expects us to know about it AND TO SHARE THESE MATTERS WITH OTHERS.   We are commanded to testify of that which Christ has done for us - so that people will know.  

 

But knowing and hearing rumors isn't the same as being in Christ.   A membership card and a certificate of completion of Christian education does not pass for salvation in God's eyes.  The Bible says so.   One must be baptized into the baptism of Christ - the second birth - the union of the Holy Spirit and the spirit of man.   In truth these are not separate issues, but in practice there are many who refuse to take part believing mistakenly that a verbal confession is sufficient.  God has a great deal more to give than the discount for purchases that a membership card will allow.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Knowingtruth]

G. In a public setting two to three at the most are to speak in tongues and there must be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation we are instructed not to speak in tongues.

²⁶ What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

 

 

This is a clear proof that a tongue speaker is spirited (human) to speak in an unknown language. Many seem to claim that Holy Spirit gives utterance. If a person is given utterance by the Holy Spirit, no mortal man has authority to stop that. Besides, no interpreter is required.

 

 

 

J. Tongues are not prohibited as long as there is order.

³⁹ Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. ⁴⁰ But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

 

Anything that God gives will be in order. This disorderly conduct that was not there when Paul was at Corinth before; Paul condones the people for the already developed trait but advises them to desire superior gifts.

 

Edited August 19, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< quotes... >>>

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

 

I would be very interested to see where in scripture He tells us that tongues has ceased. I am not interested in human logic, but scripture.

 

The very fact that Paul discouraged that type of practice, and his subsequent letters indicated in the OP do not include them along with the entire Bible are very good proof that it was a local phenomenon observed in the notorious Corinth! He also hints at its ceasing--when, a matter of discerment.

 

 

 

Can you supply the scripture you are referring to?

 

 

Everything cannot be provided through Scripture that is limited.(John 21:25) Many were lost and destroyed before Canon was decided. For that main reason  Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to discern the truth even though Scripture existed at that time.

 

If you have not experiences someone speaking in tongues that were from God, then you have missed a real blessing. Who do you think give tongues if not the Holy Spirit? I will agree that I have heard false tongues. I have also have heard real tongues and was bless from this. I will also say that there are those who do not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit nor scripture, but that does not mean tongues are not real.

 

I do not know which type of tongue you are referring to, unknown or known tongue? I believe the unknown tongue that was observed only in Corinth disappeared.

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

The entire Bible was written by God, so the words of Jesus don't supersede other scriptures.  They are in reality all the words of God. 

 

 

This is a very good point brother.

 

It may be worthwhile to consider Gospel of John 3:1-21 and especially John 4:21-24 before this deduction.

 

Not sure what you mean KT. What are you wanting to consider with theis passage in John 3?

 

 

Can we go back to OT rituals etc. since it is also word of God? Did not death Jesus of the cross made them in a way invalid?