The Devil's power??

[Leonard]

What? Of course Jews believe in a devil! What on earth have you been reading to so misinform you about Judaism?

[ann2]

satan---small s ----dont even give him the honor of a capitol letter.

[Guest idied2]

There is no O.T. verse that places Satan in the garden.

satan was definately in the garden of eden. because satan is nothing more than a word that means adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act) The advisary of GOD was there.

Because this is just a word and no one in particular's name. Christ had no problem calling Peter satan when he opposed what Christ was trying to tell him.

Mt 16:23

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

In CHRIST JESUS

[Leonard]

Ann2: Good idea. As you can see from my posts I refuse to capitalize satan as well. I hope it catches on.

Tubal Cain: I repeat, What have you been reading that has so completely misinformed you about Judaism?

As with Christianity, there are some sects, or elements within Judaism which may deny the existence of a devil, but by and large ALMOST ALL Judaism believes in a devil. As with Christianity ALMOST NONE believe in a devil who is equally powerful as God, but they do believe in a devil.

Reading just in one Jewish tradition could lead one to believe that 'this is what ALL Jews believe.' But looking within a wider scope of Jewish authorities will give a broader outlook.

[larryt]

Leo,

I am assuming you know what a search engine is. In five minutes I can reference no less than 100 Jewish websites, and not one of them say they believe in a devil.

Yes, they do acknowledge the Satan character mentioned in the O.T. however he was a member of God's court and actually worked for God. Many also believe the Satan character was fictional. I've listed 3 websites below, however if you want more, I'll get you as many as you want. NOW... I challenge you to find me ONE article that says Jews believe in a devil.

For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that God is One and Indivisible will be rejected because it precludes true, pure, monotheism. The idea that there is a God in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or hell, is not monotheism, however, it is the same duality found in other pagan faiths. The Bible speaks of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in God's court. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, God, to do anything.

Good and evil: God is the creator of all things, including the things that we like, and the things that we dislike. There is no such thing as a devil. While the Hebrew language does have the word satan, and while this word does appear in the Hebrew Bible, it means something completely unrelated to the Christian notion of a devil. Bad things do happen to good people. What matters is not the circumstance, but that the person behaves according to the Instruction in every circumstance.

http://whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation07.html

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerp.../078796784X.pdf

http://www.amhaaretz.com/2004/01/what_do_jews_believe.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi TC,

Here is one site that may help in the discussion.

LT

[Leonard]

Larry T:

D'accord!!

I see what you're driving at now. Sometimes I am so slow on the uptake, I can't believe it! Well, today at least I have the fine excuse of not sleeping well for the last few days, and being 'stuffed to perfection' with Thanksgiving dinner.

I'm not sure I agree with the verbiage you use exactly, but I think you are pretty accurate. Sorry, I thought you were trying to say that Judaism had no concept of a 'devil' (adversary against humanity) at all! Yes, overall the Jewish concept of satan is pretty different than that of most Christians.

Still, devils and demonology are certainly a topic of discussion in many branches of Judaism. Devils, demons, satan, and the devil are all words used in the Bible (a very Jewish book--even the New Testament was written by Jews), Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala............

I think you might have been more accurate if you had said most Jews had a very different concept of the devil and satan than do most Christians.

Also, due to an unfortunate bug, I can't follow links right now, so I will have to do a 'cut and paste' thing........ I'm not too good at computer stuff...................

[nebula]

TIME OUT!

At this point in the game, it should be noted that our faith is not based on who or what we believe Satan to be.

Rather our faith is based on the person and work of Jesus Christ!

So, whether there actually is a fallen angel we now call satan who rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him (Rev. 12:4) who are now called demons who (as portrayed in The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis) are pro-active in leading us astray - or whether "satan" is just the manifestation of sin and the flesh - or some other explanation comes to be - it has absolutely no bearing on salvation.

The question is not who is the devil.

The question is who is Jesus!

CONTINUE!

[Frisbinator]

Tubal Cain,

I disagree with one thing you said in your post:

For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that God is One and Indivisible will be rejected because it precludes true, pure, monotheism. The idea that there is a God in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or hell, is not monotheism, however, it is the same duality found in other pagan faiths.

Christianity is monotheistic and is not considered Duality for one simple reason already mentioned in several earlier posts: The Devil is not as powerful as God.

For a religion to have such a quality, it must have two EQUAL powers, sometimes losing and sometimes gaining ground, in the universe. The Devil is not considered an Equal power to God and therefore Christianity is not dualistic.

[Guest idied2]

Fris,

Are you saying that there is another power...but it's not as powerful as God?

Good point Tubal Cain.

GOD is the only power sourse. It all belongs to HIM.

De 32:39

'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

In CHRIST JESUS