other one Posted August 29, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,277 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,010 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2013 It is true that in the "lost books" of 1 Enoch and Adam and Eve as well is Josephus had writings or believed such as the demon (fallen angel account) and it was even Jewish historic thought from what I read. The question is what do we believe? The early church has always been against this idea and the "lost books" were never thought of is inspired and in fact, they hated these writings and called them out against God. Josephus just wrote what was Jewish tradition. If one believes in the "lost books" accounts one must also believe in all the other crazy stuff found in these writings including the 2,3, and 4th Enoch. Do we believe the word of God or Greek mythological writings? As we know, Jewish tradition has not always had things right either. To further the problem, we have to go against what Jesus states about angels and the fact they CANNOT marry, and that is what these Sons of God did, they married. Not just had sex. No where else in scripture can we find such writings. it is quite possible that there is a core of truth in all those..... not to the level of the Bible but embellished background in them all. Every civilization who has left recorded history speaks of beings of greater than man coming to earth and having children with mankind. BTW Turtellian considered Enoch as scripture.... So Did Barnabus, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciskelsey Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/19/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/13/1974 Share Posted August 31, 2013 it is quite possible that there is a core of truth in all those..... not to the level of the Bible but embellished background in them all. Every civilization who has left recorded history speaks of beings of greater than man coming to earth and having children with mankind. BTW Turtellian considered Enoch as scripture.... So Did Barnabus, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria: Interesting to note, one book at my house places I believe 19 quotes in the NT from 1 Enoch. I must say however, a known book does not make it inspired. Very interesting points you have brought up. In the sections I have read of 1 Enoch, and other such books, there does seem to be a bit of truth for sure. Adam and Even brought up the "fact" before the fall animals could talk to and like humans, thus implying how Satan was able to subdue Eve in the garden, however, in this story and in many like it, it often caters to self, Greek mythology, or almost seems to take a view point of Satan in that it expresses that side or take on some of the stories. In saying that, I have so much more to learn yet. Funny thing about me, I do not like to conclude anything is fact until I can know for certain, and can prove, at least to myself, that such and such is true. Concerning the Genesis account, I have yet to come to that point there fore at this time I am still learning much and am all ears. Concerning stories shared in many other cultures, we find this to be true of other things from Gen. as well, like the flood, the human race starting from one man and one woman, the garden of Eden, and more for sure. All of these stories, if one considers the bible historic fact, (as I do) would of had to come from Noah after the flood (and his family). It is hard to say how many years there was between the separation of the human race and the writing of Genesis, though there have been some educated guesses. That being said, is it really possible that all stories around the world came from the Jewish understanding of Genesis? Being that the believes are often much different this is almost impossible to be the case, thus it is a very convincing view concerning the fallen angels in relation to the world wide stories. I do sometimes wonder if I will come to a defining certain answer answer, even for myself, but I sure am working on it. I really do appreciate all of the thoughts that have been displayed. In knowing all the truth in Gods word we do must try to consider everything that there is believed to be some truth to it, though absolute can only be found in one source, of course. Thanks for the patience shown in regards to my timing. God bless ya all. PS Diatheosis, thank you for your story. I must say I cannot relate too much for sure. I am glad you found the true Jesus. I do believe every Christian struggles with learning to discern the spirits (the Holy Spirit versing the spirit of the fallen ones) a good share of their Christian life and walk. May Jesus always be with and guard us all from the deceptions of Satan and his lies and lead us to the one and only truth that can be found in Jesus of Nazareth alone. Praise the Lord our Father. He will prevail and we will prevail with Him, through His power alone. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsukinoRei Posted September 1, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2013 This has been an interesting topic for me lately. So, I do need confirmation on this. I'm looking for truth using scripture only. I believe ghosts and aliens do not exist. I believe "ghosts" are really Satan's fallen angels. I believe our bodies rest, but our spirits will either be in heaven or in hell after death. I also believe Ezekiel's wheel in the Bible was not a UFO. Rather, Ezekiel's wheel was a vision from God in Heaven. So your job is to convince me otherwise using scripture. I believe.. 1. Ghosts - Are not ghosts, rather they are Satan's fallen angels playing games. 2. Ghosts - Do not exist because our spirits will be in heaven or hell after death. 3. Aliens - Do not exist. Ezekiel's wheel was really a vision from God. 4. Satan's fallen angels - They can use shadows and also move things. 5. Hollywood films/books - A billion dollar industry profiting off of our ghost/alien imaginations. The truth shall be revealed. - DRS81 This looks like a fun topic! Ghosts: I have two theories regarding ghosts. One is fun, one is dull. Fun theory - We sometimes experience 'hiccups' in linear perception and perceive people or events 'out of time' - which are mistaken for ghosts. This depends on the idea that linear time more of a perception than a reality. Dull theory - We know that by stimulating a certain area of the brain the common 'near death' hallucination of euphoric peace and heading down a tunnel towards a white light can be triggered in all people. We know that seizures are not always collapsing on the ground and shaking, some seizures trigger hallucinations instead. We know that exposure to some black moulds can trigger seizures. We can observe that most 'haunted' places are old, dingy, dark, damp, and very likely a haven for black mould. So I conjecture that experiences with ghosts are born from hallucinatory seizures cause by exposure to what is most likely a specific strain or two of black mould spores - likely triggering the fear portion of the brain alongside increased sensitivity to auditory/visual hallucination boosted with the power of suggestion/expectation that comes from the fear itself. Aliens - Are we talking just extra-terrestrial or also extra-dimensional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Aliens - Are we talking just extra-terrestrial or also extra-dimensional? Aliens from other planets that are not from the kingdom of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsukinoRei Posted September 2, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2013 Aliens - Are we talking just extra-terrestrial or also extra-dimensional? Aliens from other planets that are not from the kingdom of God. Ah, then I don't know. But I am reasonably confident that grey men are not abducting earthlings for experimentation, and our politicians are not lizard men. But if the evidence changed, and it was proven that there is life on other worlds I don't think that would disprove Christianity. God's revelation to humankind about Earth would remain God's revelation to humankind about Earth. I'm sure there's no reason why He couldn't maintain a garden on another planet, or several, if He wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 2, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2013 Since we're "assuming" a lot of things I'll add some assuming myself from things I've heard and read that somewhat make sense to me but doesn't mean that it is true. A woman kept having dreams of a dream house she wanted, it was exactly the way she wanted it in her dreams. Just about every night she would fall to sleep, she would visit that house in her dreams. And one day, her and her husband were driving and passed by the same house that was in her dreams. The house was for sale, so she told her husband that she couldn't believe it was the house she saw in her dreams. So they went and took a look at it... She kept telling her husband that it was what she saw in her dreams, she even knew where the rooms were and what they looked like before even looking at them. They asked the real state lady what the price was and she said that the owner was trying to get rid of it for a very good price due to something they didn't like about the house. And so they asked what the problem was and the agent told them that the owners believed it was haunted. The wife didn't care and wanted to buy it anyways because it was her dream house. So after buying the house, the owner wanted to meet the buyers. When the owner saw who the buyer was she turned pale, and told her "omg you're the person who has been haunting this house".... What had happened (according to the story), every time the lady was dreaming about that house, her spirit would leave her body while sleeping and would visit the house. (Twilight zone music in the backround).... I know that some people who practice new age beliefs practice astral travel. Which is the spirit traveling while meditating or asleep. It isn't a Godly thing to practice though... So who knows, maybe part of what people think are ghosts just are spirits from the living, and some other apparitions most likely are evil spirits/demons/fallen angels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 2, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2013 Aliens - Are we talking just extra-terrestrial or also extra-dimensional? Aliens from other planets that are not from the kingdom of God. God's revelation to humankind about Earth would remain God's revelation to humankind about Earth. Amen to that and that's what counts. We already have enough on our plates dealing with human affairs and spiritual warfares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 2, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2013 This has been an interesting topic for me lately. So, I do need confirmation on this. I'm looking for truth using scripture only. I believe ghosts and aliens do not exist. I believe "ghosts" are really Satan's fallen angels. I believe our bodies rest, but our spirits will either be in heaven or in hell after death. I also believe Ezekiel's wheel in the Bible was not a UFO. Rather, Ezekiel's wheel was a vision from God in Heaven. So your job is to convince me otherwise using scripture. I believe.. 1. Ghosts - Are not ghosts, rather they are Satan's fallen angels playing games. 2. Ghosts - Do not exist because our spirits will be in heaven or hell after death. 3. Aliens - Do not exist. Ezekiel's wheel was really a vision from God. 4. Satan's fallen angels - They can use shadows and also move things. 5. Hollywood films/books - A billion dollar industry profiting off of our ghost/alien imaginations. The truth shall be revealed. - DRS81 Fun theory - We sometimes experience 'hiccups' in linear perception and perceive people or events 'out of time' - which are mistaken for ghosts. This depends on the idea that linear time more of a perception than a reality. I find this theory plausible regarding the apparitions of people who seem to live in a past time frame, hence the old clothing from the past that so many claim they have seen on what they believe are ghosts. I see time as 3 sheets of paper stacked one on top of the other with a spacing in between, and when these "hiccups" occur, one of the sheets bend into one another. Time is a complicated thing to understand and am not sure if we'll ever understand it because it most likely is non-existent, although we need something to go by since we are mortal haha...Although that is just another assumption of mine but makes for a good visual (in my weird mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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