Does atheism make sense?

[Guest DRS81]

and we unbelievers just want to continue on sinning.

 

You don't have to keep on sinning. Atheists are already condemned because of their unbelief in the son of God. It's a losing battle either way.

[enoob57]

 

 

Yeah it make sens :am arrogant to the point I wont admitt the most obvious truth for the simple reason that I want to follow my own desires and have fun in live nothing is restricted for me and no one even my own creator that I deny tell me what to do I dont care about the hereafter all am conserned in is this life and am willing to drag everyone with me now that I couldnt have enough strength to overcome the issues I have and subbmit to my god am gonna try to misslead small minds with all my powers so I can feel right!!

 

MaybIe it's just me but I don't get what you're saying here, mona ya. 

 

I found it hilarious, actually. I believe it is satire (using reductio ad absurdum) on common Christian arguments/beliefs about atheists. It is common among Christian circles to say that there are no real atheists for Romans says that all are without excuse to not believe, and we unbelievers just want to continue on sinning so we become atheists to ignore the rules and we want everyone to convert to atheism. Which, of course, ultimately means that we atheists must not care about our eternal fate and we want to lead people astray to experience eternal torture in Hell with us because that is just who you have to be as an atheist. 

 

You forgot one important aspect -

That which 'IS' above and that which is below - are positional realities  

and cannot be changed by the desire or twisting of thought toward those

realities.  So we who live beside you- seeing you lift yourselves by your

own deception to an elevated place (yet) remain where you are! At least

you now have our sympathies for the delusional aspect of what you believe

and what really 'IS'... Love, Steven

[Guest DRS81]

The point is that the Christian position that atheists don't really exist, that we are closet believers that just want to sin, is resoundingly absurd. 

 

Incorrect. Christians believe atheist do exist. The reason they were given the name atheist is because of their unbelief. It has nothing to do with sin but rather unbelief, because you are already condemned whether you believe in sin or not. (John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.)

[gray wolf]

I am convinced that atheists can be paragons of morality and family values.  I do not see such a view as D-9 described as universally valid.

Edited December 6, 2013 by gray wolf

[Guest DRS81]

 I think they view passages like the one you mentioned as meaning that those without "faith" or "trust" are condemned already, not "believe" as in to think something exists or not exists.

 

But having a belief in something is having faith in something...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief?s=t

3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.

 

Believing that God doesn't exist is also having faith in his non existence.

[global]

@DRS81

 

Correct, belief and faith are the same thing. A belief/faith *lack* evidence for whatever they are claiming. Thus, having a lack of belief in the existence of god/s, Atheists would not be going on faith.

 

 

A child would not have a belief in it's parents, it knows it's parents exist as they are physical. Each time the child interacts with the parents, it is given confirmation/evidence of their existence. Now if parents of the child were invisible now that would take faith.

[Guest DRS81]

I don't pretend to know how it all works in their heads, I just know that some Christians think atheists cannot actually exist and that atheists really know God exists but they don't want to give up sin so they ignore God and say he doesn't exist. When I first heard it I thought it was a joke or parody of Christian apologetics, but it wasn't, it is a real idea espoused by Christians, albeit a minority. 

 

Do you have faith that Zeus doesn't exist? 

 

I have faith that Santa Clause doesn't exist because I have never seen him.

However, people have seen Jesus walk the earth 2,000 years ago, and they've also seen him perform miracles so......

even the blind man in the courtroom of Jesus' conviction stood up for him.

"I once could not see, and now I can see." "That man put his hands on my eyes, and now I can see."

[other one]

I don't pretend to know how it all works in their heads, I just know that some Christians think atheists cannot actually exist and that atheists really know God exists but they don't want to give up sin so they ignore God and say he doesn't exist. When I first heard it I thought it was a joke or parody of Christian apologetics, but it wasn't, it is a real idea espoused by Christians, albeit a minority. 

 

Do you have faith that Zeus doesn't exist? 

Zeus was/is a fallen angel.  Stories of him are embellished but not just figments of imagination.   and yes I have been called a heretic for saying so.

[enoob57]

 

You forgot one important aspect -

 

That which 'IS' above and that which is below - are positional realities  

and cannot be changed by the desire or twisting of thought toward those

realities.  So we who live beside you- seeing you lift yourselves by your

own deception to an elevated place (yet) remain where you are! At least

you now have our sympathies for the delusional aspect of what you believe

and what really 'IS'... Love, Steven

 

The point is that the Christian position that atheists don't really exist, that we are closet believers that just want to sin, is resoundingly absurd. 

If you follow the logic it means that all atheists want to go to Hell anyway, and drag as many people down to Hell with them. 

I agree reality is reality whether we like it or not; belief doesn't appear to change reality no matter how strong the belief is. 

So it is our job to conform our beliefs to reality, as reality will not conform to ours. 

 

Now that we both agree that there is a fixed reality that cannot be altered by that which is known

then that which is not known is that which is causal to the reality. This is the exact reasoning of

why naturalism cannot be causal. The infinite set is indicated or pointed to by nature yet within

nature itself lies the indicator that it is not that infinite which it testifies of through entropy. Thus

what God has said

Rom 1:20

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood

by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

KJV

and is the only solution to what is seen by the increase of knowledge in these last days. As you

have said that which is (uncaused/reality) is independent of that which is caused. The sum of the

energy in cosmos cannot be calculated within our reason yet it 'IS' and it cannot by the reality be

created or destroyed but is winding down to an unusable form to life as we know it. These realities

within the things that are made have been explained by the 'IS' of their realty before we even knew

the questions... this is the satisfaction of why we are without excuse to God!

Rom 1:21-25

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but

became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves

to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image

made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore

God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own

bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served

the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

KJV

Don't you find it quite telling that the only scientific choice is to take what is known and make it god?

' 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like

to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Love, Steven

[gray wolf]

@DRS81

 

Correct, belief and faith are the same thing. A belief/faith *lack* evidence for whatever they are claiming. Thus, having a lack of belief in the existence of god/s, Atheists would not be going on faith.

 

 

A child would not have a belief in it's parents, it knows it's parents exist as they are physical. Each time the child interacts with the parents, it is given confirmation/evidence of their existence. Now if parents of the child were invisible now that would take faith.

But belief can transform into knowledge as well, knowledge being justified belief.  Are you sure you don't believe there is no god?  Is that tantamount to disbelieving in god?  Is it word magic?

Edited December 7, 2013 by gray wolf