Modesty

[missmuffet]

Wasn't this topic talked about before? Something about women wearing dresses or pants or something?   Im so confused.

Yes,it seems to be a popular topic.Maybe people are seeing just what I am seeing.

[LadyKay]

 

From my perspective the Amish attire is not modest. It stands out and attracts attention.

The same could be said of a women in a nice blue dress, or a man in a brand new suite.My point is , Well I don't know what my point is really.

[missmuffet]

From my perspective the Amish attire is not modest. It stands out and attracts attention.

 

Yes,the Amish attire is modest as far as the body being covered.What is inappropriate and not modest and stands out and attracts negative attention is a woman who is dressed very promiscuous with their body parts hanging out.I would rather attract attention by wearing clothes that covered my body than looking like a harlot.

[Fez]

Next week I am working in a part of the park where there are young women who don't wear anything from the waist up because that is how they live. I can stop ask directions, chat and there is no un-comfort from them, or indeed me, because it is the norm.

 

If however I took a photograph of one or more of them and posted it here, it would be very inappropriate. Or if she were wearing tight shorts and nothing else instead of the normal knee length skirt.

 

Modesty in a far ranging and deep rooted thing. We will never all come to the same conclusion.

 

Does what you are wearing honour God?

 

The young Zulu girl, yes, because many are christian and that is the way they live. If my wife was to do it (sorry sweetheart, just an example....), it would not be honoring God, because it would make people around her uncomfortable, as it would me.

 

As I said, we can never all agree on the finer points of modesty. 

[WIP]

 

Could we refrain from cutting others down?

 

Yes, the Amish stand out to us, but they do not dress as they do to attract attention to themselves or to their bodies. There's a huge difference between someone dressing their culture and someone trying to make a show out of themselves.

 

Immodesty implies drawing sensual attention to yourself.

 

 

National Geographic are not pushing porn; they are showing a culture, and they mostly try to not expose private parts when taking pictures of such tribes.

If you are referring to me cutting others down nebula would you please tell me how I am doing that?

Their is a difference in the Amish because they dress in a way that is pleasing to God.Isn't that the way all Christians should dress?

I have read many,many National Geographic magazines and have seen many totally naked bodies.It is their culture.Leave them alone.If a magazine finds them interesting then leave out the totally naked pictures.I am sure their is another way to portray the tribes with their permission without disrespecting their bodies.

 

 

I would'nt be at all surprised if those taking the pic's of those half naked with National geographic team will be of the male species.

[WIP]

From my perspective the Amish attire is not modest. It stands out and attracts attention.

 

The attention that this attire would attract would not be one of lust.

[nebula]

 

Could we refrain from cutting others down?

 

Yes, the Amish stand out to us, but they do not dress as they do to attract attention to themselves or to their bodies. There's a huge difference between someone dressing their culture and someone trying to make a show out of themselves.

 

Immodesty implies drawing sensual attention to yourself.

 

 

National Geographic are not pushing porn; they are showing a culture, and they mostly try to not expose private parts when taking pictures of such tribes.

If you are referring to me cutting others down nebula would you please tell me how I am doing that?

 

Talking about the Amish being too legalistic. It can venture into an off-topic discussion focusing on "what is wrong" with them.

 

I have read many,many National Geographic magazines and have seen many totally naked bodies.It is their culture.Leave them alone.If a magazine finds them interesting then leave out the totally naked pictures.I am sure their is another way to portray the tribes with their permission without disrespecting their bodies.

I disagree, but as you stated in another thread, to each his own.

[LadyKay]

From my perspective the Amish attire is not modest. It stands out and attracts attention.

 

The attention that this attire would attract would not be one of lust.

This truly has to do with the indivisible person. Who is to say what it is that one person finds "sexy".(I like men in kilts woooooo)  All any of us can do is dress the way that we think would please God. I personally can not stop someone from thinking lusty thoughts about me if they allow themselves to do so. I believe I spoke on this before with my story about how guys were yelling "hey baby" and other things out of the car windows as I walked by wearing a pair of sweat pants and a t-shirt. (hardly sexy) I think that everyone is responsible for their own feelings of lust; and they can not put the blame on someone else regardless of what a person is wearing. I feel that how one dresses has much to do with the activity they are doing. What I mean is, I feel it is perfectly fine and acceptable for a person to walk around in a bathing suit if they are by the pool or on the beach or even in their own yard sunbathing. But it would be consider unacceptable to dress in a bathing suit while eating at a nice restaurant or to go grocery shopping. So in other words, I think there is a difference between dressing to look attractive and dressing to look like you are looking for sex. You know that wearing a see through night gown to a social gathering with men being there is going to say "hey I am looking for sex". But if you dress in a way that is simply to attract the attention of men your saying " I look nice but I want to get to know your before showing you the whole package." Does any of this makes sense?

[Qnts2]

 

Just adding my take;

 

What is considered modest will vary from culture to culture. In Orthodox Judaism, wearing red is considered immodest. In others, dressing well is considered the norm. In some, it would be wrong to not wear some form of jewelry.

 

For 1 Tim 2, in that culture prostitutes braided their hair with gold. In other cultures during biblical times, pagan temple priestesses shaved their heads.

 

Amish dress in what they consider modest clothing, but in these modern times, they stand out tremendously.  Is it modest to dress so differently so as to stand out and attract attention?

 

We should stand out from the world because we are different vastly different....in this scripture we are told that the world thought it strange that the believers did not take part in the wild living of the lost, no doubt that attracted attention.....so why should'nt our dress code be so different ?

 

1 Peter 4:4  Wherein they think it strange that you run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

 

 

The worlds wild living normally involves some kind of sin, and as believers, we should not join the world in sinning.

 

However, dress varies from culture to culture, and based on cultural norms, different kinds of clothing is not a sin.

 

Many use the practices in Judaism to define legalism, but I think legalism is actually promoting a manner of acting, which is used to judge others, which is not a biblically defined prohibition. In other words, if I told you, you are to keep your hair covered whenever you are visible to anyone other then immediete family, I am putting you under a law which does not come from scripture. If I then judge you as immodest for having your hair exposed in public, I have again engaged in legalism, plus much more.

 

Clothing should be modest, but modest is defined by culture. Scripture does not really define appropriate dress, other then the generic and culturally influenced term 'modest'. If I told you to cover your hair because hair is sensual and should not be seen in public, that might be my own view, or the view of my cultural community but it isn't the typical cultural view in Australia.

 

Another definition of modest involves pride. When clothing from one community is worn in another community regularly, it attracts attention. People notice you and gather to ask questions. If that leads to sharing the gospel, well, I have no issue, but if the clothing is to distinguish yourself and who you are, that can be pride.  

 

So why shouldn't our dress code be different? We have to be careful that our dress code is not immodest according to the community and culture we are in. We have to be careful that our dress code does not divolve into legalism. And we have to be careful of pride. Too much real potential sin, or causing a brother to stumble when having a dress code, especially because it is not a biblical requirement.   

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

Just adding my take;

 

What is considered modest will vary from culture to culture. In Orthodox Judaism, wearing red is considered immodest. In others, dressing well is considered the norm. In some, it would be wrong to not wear some form of jewelry.

 

For 1 Tim 2, in that culture prostitutes braided their hair with gold. In other cultures during biblical times, pagan temple priestesses shaved their heads.

 

Amish dress in what they consider modest clothing, but in these modern times, they stand out tremendously.  Is it modest to dress so differently so as to stand out and attract attention?

 

I was thinking the same thing Q. Modesty will vary from culture to culture.

You bring up a good point about 1 Timm 2... Braided hair and shaved heads...

How would you answer this question in red? Curious.

 

If you see those with no clothes on in National Geographic it is because they live in the Jungle.That is the only why they know how to present themselves.No one sees them except creepy National Geographic photographers who want to capture the naked person living in the jungle.

 

 

 

Creepy?  Really?  Every N Geo photographer who happens to catch a person in the jungle sans clothes is creepy?  FYI, they are usually only naked from the waist up

 

So does that also mean that ALL artists, photographers and sculpters are also all creepy should they in some way render the human form as God intended?

 

After all, it was only AFTER the sin of disobedience that the occupants of the garden required clothes.

 

I think an awful lot of people might object to your rendition of creepy and that includes Christians who acknowledge and live by the admonition to dressing appropriately as a believer

 

I have seen many totally naked people of the jungle photographed in National Geographic.What is the point?That is like going to a naked beach fully clothed to gawk and take pictures of the naked.I do know people do this.I think that nudity in art should be avoided.Many of this world would not agree with me.

 

 

When I was in college, by my senior year, some of the remaining courses I needed were pretty generic. I decided to take a class on drawing. I have never taken an art class before, even in high school. (FYI - I discovered I am definitely not a gifted artist). I also tend to be shy, and much to my absolute shock, they did use live models. Both men and women, naked. What's worse, one male was a student trying to make some spending money, and I knew him. The other students in the class were mainly art majors. They knew the models, and would carry on everyday conversations with them while they stood there in the buff.

 

Well, after my face returned to a more normal color, and I actually started to draw, I became so involved in drawing to represent the human body on a 2 dimensional paper, that I stopped really seeing people, and started seeing them as subjects to draw, not actual living breathing naked people. There was nothing sensual about drawing the subject matter. To be a truly serious artist, the ability to understand how to draw a human body is a necessity.

 

But I have seen a Michelangelo sculpture. David is the most famous, and it is a true work of art.  

 

When dealing with art, a person who sees a masterpiece and sees pornography vs a person who sees the masterpiece and sees a masterpiece of astounding work, is truthfully, a reflection of the state of the persons mind. And/or culture.