One Way Love: An Antidote to Legalism?

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which means that the Bible is not first a recipe book for Christian living but a revelation book of Jesus who is the answer to our un-Christian living

 

That line stands out to me more than anything else.  

 

The poor little reed blows with the wind while the mighty oak, firm and unmoving, is broken in half when the wind is strong enough.

 

 

 

Thirdly, Tchividjian also does a masterful job of dismantling many of the misconceptions other believers have about those who pursue gospel-centered, grace-based living. One such example is found in the penultimate chapter, when Tchividjian addresses the issue of “antinomianism.” Antinomianism is the belief that the law is irrelevant and unimportant for the Christian, and is a philosophy which Gothard has oft accused his critics of espousing. Gothard has “warned” in several writings that those who believe grace to be God’s unmerited favor are in danger of turning grace into a license to sin. However, Tullian believes this to be utterly impossible, stating that antinomianism is an impossible heresy. Those who have truly been captivated by God’s grace are not capable of abusing it, and those that turn to licentiousness are simply substituting their own law for God’s. According to Tchividjian, “grace inspires what the Law demands. The Law prescribes good works, but only grace can produce them.”

 

 

Yeah...that sounds familiar

 

It sounds familiar because it is legitimate.  But hey, if it is impossible for a real Christian to abuse God's grace, we don't need the church, we don't need a Bible, we don't need this guy's book.  We can't fail.  Why did the Bible even give us warnings about bad behavior?  I guess it was just to take up space, and make the book longer?  Why do we need fellowship with other believers as we see the day of the Lord approaching?  It is a heresy to think we can abuse God's grace and fall?  What a wonderful salvation you liberated Christians have found?  It is amazing, and yet I still feel the need to try to follow the Bible's teachings?  I still feel bad if I sin.  There is definitely something wrong here. 

 

 

Us liberated Christians who rely on God and His gift of grace, still read the bible, and follow it's teachings. It is just our motivation is different.

 

It goes along with the scripture verse, we love God because He first loved us.

 

No worries though, since you can't fail.  The funny thing about all of this is that if someone is found to be in sin, people will just say they were never really saved, so all this so-called assurance of salvation is really not legitimate.  Take you for instance.  Lets say that right now you are following the Bible's teachings, but a year from now you turn back into sin.  If these teachings are true, it doesn't matter, but at the same time, that harms the teaching that those who are saved will live right, "because God first loves us."  Most would say you were never really saved.  Catch 22.  I honestly don't know how anyone can believe that kind of doctrine?  If you can't fail, you can't fail, so you could do anything you want.  You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder, and it wouldn't really matter.  Those things are all laws, yet the Bible says if you do those things you won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  As far as I am concerned, your motives don't matter.  If scripture says you can't get into heaven while in sin, that's what it means, so if you feel better about yourself saying you are motivations are different from mine, so be it.  The result of sin is still the same. 

 

First of all, I think we have entirely different understanding of what happens at the moment of salvation. Scripture has much to say about this, but at the same time, I don't think it is easily understood as to the full scope of what happens at the moment of salvation. Actually, that is the topic of this thread.  

 

Before salvation, a person is a sinner, has sinned, and also dead in their sin. Being in Adam means having died, and later physical death and finally the second death. Salvation is more then forgiveness or propitiation for sin. If Jesus died for our sins, and nothing more, then we are still in Adam, and still dead. So, now we have to look at what God did to make us 'in Christ'.

 

First and foremost, scripture says the old man is dead. He died on the cross.   

 

Romans 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

What does it mean that the old man is dead. Simply, it means that we are not the same people we were prior to the moment of salvation. We are no longer sinners in Adam, but saints in Christ. Something in us died. We are now new creations.  Not only are we something new, The Holy Spirit and Jesus Spirit, now dwell in us.

 

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me

 

People who were dead and desired to do sins, now have changed. The old man is dead, and has been crucified with Christ, and have been made new creations, living by faith with Christ in them and them in Christ. A person who has undergone such a change does not desire to live in sin. So while we have freedom, the freedom to choose to sin or not sin, our desire is now different. A born again believer does not want to sin.  So 'You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder' but I don't want to.

 

So now, when I say, I love God because God first loved me, my love for God comes from the fact that I am a new creation. Because I love God, and have Christ living in me, and my life is thru Him by faith, I am not who I was before salvation. In the following verse, note the differentiation between a person who is a sinner, and a person who is now a saint. What happened? We were changed, from dead to alive to God, washed, sanctified, justified in the Spirit of God.

 

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

[GoldenEagle]

You can start at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.  Paul gives us a list of sins that will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. 

 

Okay I suppose 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 is the reference to "how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven"

Let's look at the passage in context which has to do with the conduct of Believers... The preceeding verses have to do with taking matters to the world in lawsuits ( verses 1-6). I'd bring attention to verse 11 which I believe clarifies the context for which the Holy Spirit through paul gave us verses 9 and 10.

 

1 Cor. 6:1-11

¹ Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? ² Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? ³ Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? ⁴ If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? ⁵ I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? ⁶ But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

⁷ Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? ⁸ No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! ⁹ Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

I believe that verses 9-10 should read in the context of verse 11 which shows that some were living unrighteously but they were washed, sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Meaning they turned away from these sins. How do you view this passage in context?

[GoldenEagle]

Those people weren't saying we should throw out the Bible, but I am saying that if what they are teaching is correct, we don't need a Bible.  The Bible will only make us feel bad, because it will tell us that certain sins will keep us out of heaven, and lead us into the heretical idea that we must actually behave in a certain way to make it to heaven.  I don't believe legalism makes people give up.  I would suggest just the opposite.  Those on the other side are basically telling us to give up and stop trying to live by any code of conduct, because that would be a works based salvation. 

 

 

In a nutshell, here is how I take this guy's doctrine.  Lets suppose someone comes here and asks if it is wrong to do something, anything?  I will use adultery as an example.  The legalist would tell them it is a sin that will keep them out of heaven, but the enlightened people of today would point out we are no longer under law but grace.  As such, it is technically wrong, but don't sweat it.  Our salvation isn't based on how we live.  We can't do anything to lose it, and it is heresy to suggest otherwise.  Everyone sins, so if your sin is adultery, it is no big deal.  God's grace is sufficient.  Yes, you might lose a crown, or you might get an STD or something like that, but your soul is safe. 

 

 

"The Bible will only make us feel bad"? Do you mean in relation to conviction of sin? When I read the BIble it doesn't only make me feel bad. It convicts me of my sin sure. But it also points to an awesome God we serve.

Where does the Bible teach us please that "we must actually behave in a certain way to make it to heaven."? Please clarify what you mean.

 

 

 

For clarification I think for others who are parcipating or reading we should differentiate our views of the term legalism.

I view the term "legalism" as: A) "excessive adherence to law or formula" and/or B) "dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith."

If memory serves me you view the term "legalism" as: "strict adherence to the law"   Is that correct?

 

 

 

What do you mean by the term "Those on the other side"? Please clarify what you mean by "the other side".

[GoldenEagle]

 

In a nutshell, here is how I take this guy's doctrine.  Lets suppose someone comes here and asks if it is wrong to do something, anything?  I will use adultery as an example.  The legalist would tell them it is a sin that will keep them out of heaven, but the enlightened people of today would point out we are no longer under law but grace.  As such, it is technically wrong, but don't sweat it.  Our salvation isn't based on how we live.  We can't do anything to lose it, and it is heresy to suggest otherwise.  Everyone sins, so if your sin is adultery, it is no big deal.  God's grace is sufficient.  Yes, you might lose a crown, or you might get an STD or something like that, but your soul is safe. 

 

 

Sunds like you're wanting to discuss the idea of OSAS. There are a few threads on that. Please, let's stick to the OP discussion. Here's a few suggestions or you could start your own...

 

 

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

First of all, I think we have entirely different understanding of what happens at the moment of salvation. Scripture has much to say about this, but at the same time, I don't think it is easily understood as to the full scope of what happens at the moment of salvation. Actually, that is the topic of this thread.  

 

 

Before salvation, a person is a sinner, has sinned, and also dead in their sin. Being in Adam means having died, and later physical death and finally the second death. Salvation is more then forgiveness or propitiation for sin. If Jesus died for our sins, and nothing more, then we are still in Adam, and still dead. So, now we have to look at what God did to make us 'in Christ'.

 

First and foremost, scripture says the old man is dead. He died on the cross.   

 

Romans 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

What does it mean that the old man is dead. Simply, it means that we are not the same people we were prior to the moment of salvation. We are no longer sinners in Adam, but saints in Christ. Something in us died. We are now new creations.  Not only are we something new, The Holy Spirit and Jesus Spirit, now dwell in us.

 

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me

 

People who were dead and desired to do sins, now have changed. The old man is dead, and has been crucified with Christ, and have been made new creations, living by faith with Christ in them and them in Christ. A person who has undergone such a change does not desire to live in sin. So while we have freedom, the freedom to choose to sin or not sin, our desire is now different. A born again believer does not want to sin.  So 'You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder' but I don't want to.

 

So now, when I say, I love God because God first loved me, my love for God comes from the fact that I am a new creation. Because I love God, and have Christ living in me, and my life is thru Him by faith, I am not who I was before salvation. In the following verse, note the differentiation between a person who is a sinner, and a person who is now a saint. What happened? We were changed, from dead to alive to God, washed, sanctified, justified in the Spirit of God.

 

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

I just read this and agree with your comments above. Perhaps since legalism is misundersatnding salvation it is important to first understand what salvation entails...

 

I just don't wan this to turn into a OSAS discussion please.

[Guest shiloh357]

What does anyone need with his book?  Why do we need the Bible?  Why not just tell someone that they need to believe in Jesus and leave it at that?  If you do read the Bible, and see how Paul kept his body in subjection so he won't be a castaway, and how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven, you might actually try to stop doing certain things? 

 

The context pertaining to Paul being a “castaway” has to do with service,  not salvation.  I Corinthians 9:16 begins the context of Paul’s preaching of the Gospel.  In that portion of the chapter Paul uses the athletic event of a race as an illustration of his ministry.  He compares the discpline of his own life to the discipline of an athelete who is competing for a prize or a reward.

 

 

Paul says that just as an runner competes to win a corruptible crown we are striving for one that is incorruptable.   That is not referencing salvation.  Salvation is not a reward for right living.  Salvation is not prize.  Paul is talking about reward for service, not salvation.

 

 

The point Paul is making is that he keeps himself disciplined so that after he has preached to others he is not disqualified for service.  The Greek word means to be disapproved.  There are people who cannot witness to their co-workers or neighbors because they haven’t lived for Jesus and have allowed themselves to listen to, or laugh at dirty jokes, or have used God’s Name in vain and as a result, they are disqualifed.  They can’t share Jesus because they know that coming from them, it would be a reproach.  That is the sense in which Paul is using the word “castaway.”  He is not talking about salvation. 

 

 

 

 

I mean, if you read that adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, if you are a womanizer, you might get scared and stop cheating?  We can't have that.  That would be legalism, and performance based salvation.  You might have a drunk who reads about how drunkards won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  They might get scared and stop drinking? 

 

 

Nope.  Fear is not an impediment to sin.  I know sinners who understand that they are going to hell, but that realization doesn’t serve as any kind of motivation to stop sinning.  The love sin more than they love the truth.  They know the truth and they understand that their eternal future is at stake, but they have rejected the truth because sin is more attractive.

 

 

In Galatians 5, Paul points to walking in the Spirit as the only sure impediment to sin.  You can try hard as you can to modify your behavior, but you will eventually return to your sin.  It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can overcome sin.  Being filled and led by the Spirit is the only means the Christian has of living in victory over temptation and sin.

 

 

Grace is not the absence of holy living.  Grace is the expectation of holiness, as Paul points out in Titus 2:11-14:

 

 

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.  (Tit 2:11-14)

 

 

Tchividjian said it best when he said, “grace inspires what the Law demands. The Law prescribes good works, but only grace can produce them.”

[Sevenseas]

 Qtns2So now, when I say, I love God because God first loved me, my love for God comes from the fact that I am a new creation. Because I love God, and have Christ living in me, and my life is thru Him by faith, I am not who I was before salvation. In the following verse, note the differentiation between a person who is a sinner, and a person who is now a saint. What happened? We were changed, from dead to alive to God, washed, sanctified, justified in the Spirit of God.

 

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor thecovetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

 

 

A great post Qt!  For me, it makes me think of this verse:

 

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.  Acts 17:28

 

God initiates, does the work and completes it and all IN Christ our Savior...as Christ said:  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.  John 15:1

 

That Christ is the TRUE vine, indicates that a person can become attached to and grow in error rather than truth.  There is just so much...it is exhaustive!

[Guest Butero]

 

 

No worries though, since you can't fail.  The funny thing about all of this is that if someone is found to be in sin, people will just say they were never really saved, so all this so-called assurance of salvation is really not legitimate.  Take you for instance.  Lets say that right now you are following the Bible's teachings, but a year from now you turn back into sin.  If these teachings are true, it doesn't matter, but at the same time, that harms the teaching that those who are saved will live right, "because God first loves us."  Most would say you were never really saved.  Catch 22.  I honestly don't know how anyone can believe that kind of doctrine?  If you can't fail, you can't fail, so you could do anything you want.  You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder, and it wouldn't really matter.  Those things are all laws, yet the Bible says if you do those things you won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  As far as I am concerned, your motives don't matter.  If scripture says you can't get into heaven while in sin, that's what it means, so if you feel better about yourself saying you are motivations are different from mine, so be it.  The result of sin is still the same. 

 

First of all, I think we have entirely different understanding of what happens at the moment of salvation. Scripture has much to say about this, but at the same time, I don't think it is easily understood as to the full scope of what happens at the moment of salvation. Actually, that is the topic of this thread.  

 

Before salvation, a person is a sinner, has sinned, and also dead in their sin. Being in Adam means having died, and later physical death and finally the second death. Salvation is more then forgiveness or propitiation for sin. If Jesus died for our sins, and nothing more, then we are still in Adam, and still dead. So, now we have to look at what God did to make us 'in Christ'.

 

First and foremost, scripture says the old man is dead. He died on the cross.   

 

Romans 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

What does it mean that the old man is dead. Simply, it means that we are not the same people we were prior to the moment of salvation. We are no longer sinners in Adam, but saints in Christ. Something in us died. We are now new creations.  Not only are we something new, The Holy Spirit and Jesus Spirit, now dwell in us.

 

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me

 

People who were dead and desired to do sins, now have changed. The old man is dead, and has been crucified with Christ, and have been made new creations, living by faith with Christ in them and them in Christ. A person who has undergone such a change does not desire to live in sin. So while we have freedom, the freedom to choose to sin or not sin, our desire is now different. A born again believer does not want to sin.  So 'You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder' but I don't want to.

 

So now, when I say, I love God because God first loved me, my love for God comes from the fact that I am a new creation. Because I love God, and have Christ living in me, and my life is thru Him by faith, I am not who I was before salvation. In the following verse, note the differentiation between a person who is a sinner, and a person who is now a saint. What happened? We were changed, from dead to alive to God, washed, sanctified, justified in the Spirit of God.

 

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

I understand the doctrine you are promoting, and I get the idea that a new creature in Christ doesn't want to sin.  The problem is, there are multitudes of people that go to the alter, pray a prayer, say they love Jesus and mean it, live right for a time, and fall away.  While they are living for Christ, they will claim they are secure, but when they fall away, people will say they were never really saved.  Knowing that this occurs, where is the real assurance?  Where is the real security?  What happens if you have a change of heart by and by? 

[Guest Butero]

 

You can start at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.  Paul gives us a list of sins that will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. 

 

Okay I suppose 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 is the reference to "how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven"

Let's look at the passage in context which has to do with the conduct of Believers... The preceeding verses have to do with taking matters to the world in lawsuits ( verses 1-6). I'd bring attention to verse 11 which I believe clarifies the context for which the Holy Spirit through paul gave us verses 9 and 10.

 

1 Cor. 6:1-11

¹ Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? ² Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? ³ Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? ⁴ If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? ⁵ I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? ⁶ But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

⁷ Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? ⁸ No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! ⁹ Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

I believe that verses 9-10 should read in the context of verse 11 which shows that some were living unrighteously but they were washed, sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Meaning they turned away from these sins. How do you view this passage in context?

 

Right, but are you going to tell me that there are no professing Christians that do these things?  Are you going to tell me it is impossible for Christians to do these things?  What happens if they do?  Will they inherit the Kingdom of God, even though the Bible says they won't?  Where is the assurance in that?  What happens if a Christian becomes a drunkard because while going through hard times, they turn to the bottle?  What if they die in that state?  Were they never really saved?  This doctrine doesn't work.  It might for some, but there are legalists that live right too.  Legalism in itself isn't the issue.  It doesn't really matter what the motivations are.  You are either following the Bible or you are not? 

[Guest Butero]

 

Those people weren't saying we should throw out the Bible, but I am saying that if what they are teaching is correct, we don't need a Bible.  The Bible will only make us feel bad, because it will tell us that certain sins will keep us out of heaven, and lead us into the heretical idea that we must actually behave in a certain way to make it to heaven.  I don't believe legalism makes people give up.  I would suggest just the opposite.  Those on the other side are basically telling us to give up and stop trying to live by any code of conduct, because that would be a works based salvation. 

 

 

In a nutshell, here is how I take this guy's doctrine.  Lets suppose someone comes here and asks if it is wrong to do something, anything?  I will use adultery as an example.  The legalist would tell them it is a sin that will keep them out of heaven, but the enlightened people of today would point out we are no longer under law but grace.  As such, it is technically wrong, but don't sweat it.  Our salvation isn't based on how we live.  We can't do anything to lose it, and it is heresy to suggest otherwise.  Everyone sins, so if your sin is adultery, it is no big deal.  God's grace is sufficient.  Yes, you might lose a crown, or you might get an STD or something like that, but your soul is safe. 

 

 

"The Bible will only make us feel bad"? Do you mean in relation to conviction of sin? When I read the BIble it doesn't only make me feel bad. It convicts me of my sin sure. But it also points to an awesome God we serve.

Where does the Bible teach us please that "we must actually behave in a certain way to make it to heaven."? Please clarify what you mean.

 

 

 

For clarification I think for others who are parcipating or reading we should differentiate our views of the term legalism.

I view the term "legalism" as: A) "excessive adherence to law or formula" and/or B) "dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith."

If memory serves me you view the term "legalism" as: "strict adherence to the law"   Is that correct?

 

 

 

What do you mean by the term "Those on the other side"? Please clarify what you mean by "the other side".

 

Yes, I will clarify those comments.  What I mean when I say we must behave in a certain way to make it to heaven, is that we must refuse to commit sins the Bible says will keep us out of heaven, like being a drunkard for instance.  The Bible says a drunkard won't inherit the Kingdom of God, so if I want to make it to heaven, I have to refuse to drink wherein is excess.  You can question whether or not a single instance of becoming drunk makes a drunkard, but that is not the point.  I will even concede it may not mean that?  I am saying I can't behave as Otis, the town drunk on Andy Griffith and make it to heaven. 

 

By those on the other side, I mean those who attack legalism.  Now, lets look to the definitions of legalism.  Going by my definition that legalism is strict adherence to the laws of God, are you saying you think that kind of legalism is ok?  If you are, perhaps we aren't that far apart?