One Way Love: An Antidote to Legalism?

[GoldenEagle]

What does anyone need with his book?  Why do we need the Bible?  Why not just tell someone that they need to believe in Jesus and leave it at that?  If you do read the Bible, and see how Paul kept his body in subjection so he won't be a castaway, and how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven, you might actually try to stop doing certain things?  You might care about personal performance?  I mean, if you read that adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, if you are a womanizer, you might get scared and stop cheating?  We can't have that.  That would be legalism, and performance based salvation.  You might have a drunk who reads about how drunkards won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  They might get scared and stop drinking?  That is a performance based salvation, and we can't have that.  That would be addictive and destructive to our mental health.  Just throw out your Bibles, don't waste money on this book, and do as Joyce Meyers suggested, "Try not to try." 

 

The one thing I would say about this is if you are a woman and your husband is a professing Christian and he cheats on you, don't judge him and think he isn't really saved.  He is just taking full advantage of his Christian freedom.  If you are living with a drunk who spends money that should go to food on alcohol, and he is a Sunday School teacher, don't get upset with him.  He is enjoying his Christian freedom.  Make sure he doesn't see that scripture about how a man that doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel and denying the faith.  That might cause him to fall into destructive behavior of a performance based religion?  He is actually better than the man who is faithful because adultery is a sin, and the man who stops drinking because he wants to make it to heaven.  Eat, drink and be merry folks, and don't try to live right.  What a great religion you have. 

 

There's a lot in this post... Not sure how this all has to do with the OP... But I will give it a go.

 

Please expand on your comment "how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

Where did you get the impression that Tullian and/or the author of the OP were advocating throwing out the Bible?

What did you think of Tullian's thought? The ironic thing about legalism is that it not only doesn’t make people work harder, it makes them give up. Moralism doesn’t produce morality; rather, it produces immorality.”

 

Let's start there and perhaps we can move onto thest of the post including some of the extreme examples you've given brother.

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

Also...

 

"Your identity is firmly anchored in Christ's accomplishment, not yours; his strength, not yours; his performance, not yours; his victory, not yours." - Tullian Tchividjian

 

“The world isn't scandalized by our freedom but by our fakeness.” - Tullian Tchividjian

“God's ability to clean things up is infinitely greater than our ability to mess things up.” - Tullian Tchividjian

 

 

 

Yes.  I wonder how many Christians would actually be able to 'spell' out what their identity in Christ is...I know I couldn't until I had an 'identity crisis'

 

That is when I set out to find some answers that change your life when you understand them.  All in scritpure, like so:

 

<snip>

 

and that's really just a small portion of what Scritpure has to say about our identity IN Christ

 

That is exciting and encouraging and I find as I read through the list, my spirit feels alive and I want to shout "Thank you Jesus"...seriously, that is how these words from God to us make me "feel"...

but more than just feelings, they are truth and light and life

 

 

Amen!

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

Which means that the Bible is not first a recipe book for Christian living but a revelation book of Jesus who is the answer to our un-Christian living

 

That line stands out to me more than anything else.  

 

The poor little reed blows with the wind while the mighty oak, firm and unmoving, is broken in half when the wind is strong enough.

 

 

 

Thirdly, Tchividjian also does a masterful job of dismantling many of the misconceptions other believers have about those who pursue gospel-centered, grace-based living. One such example is found in the penultimate chapter, when Tchividjian addresses the issue of “antinomianism.” Antinomianism is the belief that the law is irrelevant and unimportant for the Christian, and is a philosophy which Gothard has oft accused his critics of espousing. Gothard has “warned” in several writings that those who believe grace to be God’s unmerited favor are in danger of turning grace into a license to sin. However, Tullian believes this to be utterly impossible, stating that antinomianism is an impossible heresy. Those who have truly been captivated by God’s grace are not capable of abusing it, and those that turn to licentiousness are simply substituting their own law for God’s. According to Tchividjian, “grace inspires what the Law demands. The Law prescribes good works, but only grace can produce them.”

 

 

Yeah...that sounds familiar

 

It sounds familiar because it is legitimate.  But hey, if it is impossible for a real Christian to abuse God's grace, we don't need the church, we don't need a Bible, we don't need this guy's book.  We can't fail.  Why did the Bible even give us warnings about bad behavior?  I guess it was just to take up space, and make the book longer?  Why do we need fellowship with other believers as we see the day of the Lord approaching?  It is a heresy to think we can abuse God's grace and fall?  What a wonderful salvation you liberated Christians have found?  It is amazing, and yet I still feel the need to try to follow the Bible's teachings?  I still feel bad if I sin.  There is definitely something wrong here. 

 

 

Us liberated Christians who rely on God and His gift of grace, still read the bible, and follow it's teachings. It is just our motivation is different.

 

It goes along with the scripture verse, we love God because He first loved us.

[Qnts2]

 

 

Also...

 

"Your identity is firmly anchored in Christ's accomplishment, not yours; his strength, not yours; his performance, not yours; his victory, not yours." - Tullian Tchividjian

 

“The world isn't scandalized by our freedom but by our fakeness.” - Tullian Tchividjian

“God's ability to clean things up is infinitely greater than our ability to mess things up.” - Tullian Tchividjian

 

 

 

Yes.  I wonder how many Christians would actually be able to 'spell' out what their identity in Christ is...I know I couldn't until I had an 'identity crisis'

 

That is when I set out to find some answers that change your life when you understand them.  All in scritpure, like so:

 

John 1:12...I am a child of God

 

John 15:15...I am Christ's friend

 

John 15:16...I am chosen and appointed by Christ to bear His fruit (that is, a Christ-like life)

 

Romans 8:17...I am a joint heir with Christ, sharing His inheritance with Him

 

I Cor. 3:16; 6:19...I am a temple...a dwelling place...of God.  His Spirit and His life dwell in me  (love this...wonderful to think this is actually so!)

 

I Cor. 12:27 & Eph. 5:30...I am a member of Christ's body

 

II Cor. 5:17  I AM A NEW CREATION!!!

 

II Cor. 5:18,19...I am reconciled to God and am a minister of reconciliation

 

Eph. 1:1, I Cor 1:2, Phil 1:1, Col 1:2...I am a saint (not a sinner, thank God!)

 

Eph. 2:10...I am God's workmanship...his handwork...born anew in Christ to do His work

 

 

and that's really just a small portion of what Scritpure has to say about our identity IN Christ

 

That is exciting and encouraging and I find as I read through the list, my spirit feels alive and I want to shout "Thank you Jesus"...seriously, that is how these words from God to us make me "feel"...

but more than just feelings, they are truth and light and life

 

 

That list makes me want to jump and shout!!!!

 

Pardon my charismania. A while back, I thought I heard God's still small voice ask me who I was. I tried to answer but none of my answers were right. That is when I discovered the verses you are referencing plus more. At that point, I began a journey of discovering my identity in Messiah. I so totally agree with you that these words from scripture are truth, light and life.

[GoldenEagle]

 

Us liberated Christians who rely on God and His gift of grace, still read the bible, and follow it's teachings. It is just our motivation is different.

 

It goes along with the scripture verse, we love God because He first loved us.

 

Please expand on the idea of motivation being different?

As to this in bold... Amen! In particular verse 19 is the one I'm thinking of...

1 John 4:13-21

¹³ By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. ¹⁴ And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. ¹⁵ Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. ¹⁶ So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. ¹⁷ By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. ¹⁸ There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. ¹⁹ We love because he first loved us. ²⁰ If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot^[a] love God whom he has not seen. ²¹ And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

[GoldenEagle]

 

That list makes me want to jump and shout!!!!

 

Pardon my charismania. A while back, I thought I heard God's still small voice ask me who I was. I tried to answer but none of my answers were right. That is when I discovered the verses you are referencing plus more. At that point, I began a journey of discovering my identity in Messiah. I so totally agree with you that these words from scripture are truth, light and life.

 

 

 

Yes! Hallelujah! Thank you JESUS!

Reminds me of this song.

 

When I Think about the Lord,

How He saved me, how He raised me,

How He filled me, with the Holy Ghost.

How He healed me, to the uttermost.

When I Think about the Lord,

How He picked me up and turned me around,

How He placed my feet on solid ground

Chrous*

It makes me wanna shout,

Hallelujah,

Thank you JESUS,

LORD, your worthy, of all the glory, and all the honor,

And all the praise... (Repeat*)

[Sevenseas]

  Qnts 2That list makes me want to jump and shout!!!!

 

Pardon my charismania. A while back, I thought I heard God's still small voice ask me who I was. I tried to answer but none of my answers were right. That is when I discovered the verses you are referencing plus more. At that point, I began a journey of discovering my identity in Messiah. I so totally agree with you that these words from scripture are truth, light and life.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad!  cause as I was going through it, I really did start to feel uplifted!  Love it!  and there are so many more....

 

The word of God really can get inside you and change you like nothing else can...I've been having a personal struggle a couple of weeks now....but honestly,

I know God is real when His Spirit stirs my heart like that.

 

Anyway, it is refreshing, isn't it?

[Sevenseas]

And then while I am reading some of the other posts here, this came to mind"

 

"And the LORD will continually guide you, And satisfy your desire in scorched places, And give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail."

 

Isaiah 58:11

 

God's word fits like a glove in whatever situation we may be in....

[Guest Butero]

 

What does anyone need with his book?  Why do we need the Bible?  Why not just tell someone that they need to believe in Jesus and leave it at that?  If you do read the Bible, and see how Paul kept his body in subjection so he won't be a castaway, and how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven, you might actually try to stop doing certain things?  You might care about personal performance?  I mean, if you read that adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, if you are a womanizer, you might get scared and stop cheating?  We can't have that.  That would be legalism, and performance based salvation.  You might have a drunk who reads about how drunkards won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  They might get scared and stop drinking?  That is a performance based salvation, and we can't have that.  That would be addictive and destructive to our mental health.  Just throw out your Bibles, don't waste money on this book, and do as Joyce Meyers suggested, "Try not to try." 

 

The one thing I would say about this is if you are a woman and your husband is a professing Christian and he cheats on you, don't judge him and think he isn't really saved.  He is just taking full advantage of his Christian freedom.  If you are living with a drunk who spends money that should go to food on alcohol, and he is a Sunday School teacher, don't get upset with him.  He is enjoying his Christian freedom.  Make sure he doesn't see that scripture about how a man that doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel and denying the faith.  That might cause him to fall into destructive behavior of a performance based religion?  He is actually better than the man who is faithful because adultery is a sin, and the man who stops drinking because he wants to make it to heaven.  Eat, drink and be merry folks, and don't try to live right.  What a great religion you have. 

 

There's a lot in this post... Not sure how this all has to do with the OP... But I will give it a go.

 

Please expand on your comment "how certain sins will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven"

 

Where did you get the impression that Tullian and/or the author of the OP were advocating throwing out the Bible?

What did you think of Tullian's thought? The ironic thing about legalism is that it not only doesn’t make people work harder, it makes them give up. Moralism doesn’t produce morality; rather, it produces immorality.”

 

Let's start there and perhaps we can move onto thest of the post including some of the extreme examples you've given brother.

 

God bless,

GE

 

You can start at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.  Paul gives us a list of sins that will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.  Those people weren't saying we should throw out the Bible, but I am saying that if what they are teaching is correct, we don't need a Bible.  The Bible will only make us feel bad, because it will tell us that certain sins will keep us out of heaven, and lead us into the heretical idea that we must actually behave in a certain way to make it to heaven.  I don't believe legalism makes people give up.  I would suggest just the opposite.  Those on the other side are basically telling us to give up and stop trying to live by any code of conduct, because that would be a works based salvation. 

 

In a nutshell, here is how I take this guy's doctrine.  Lets suppose someone comes here and asks if it is wrong to do something, anything?  I will use adultery as an example.  The legalist would tell them it is a sin that will keep them out of heaven, but the enlightened people of today would point out we are no longer under law but grace.  As such, it is technically wrong, but don't sweat it.  Our salvation isn't based on how we live.  We can't do anything to lose it, and it is heresy to suggest otherwise.  Everyone sins, so if your sin is adultery, it is no big deal.  God's grace is sufficient.  Yes, you might lose a crown, or you might get an STD or something like that, but your soul is safe. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

 

Which means that the Bible is not first a recipe book for Christian living but a revelation book of Jesus who is the answer to our un-Christian living

 

That line stands out to me more than anything else.  

 

The poor little reed blows with the wind while the mighty oak, firm and unmoving, is broken in half when the wind is strong enough.

 

 

 

Thirdly, Tchividjian also does a masterful job of dismantling many of the misconceptions other believers have about those who pursue gospel-centered, grace-based living. One such example is found in the penultimate chapter, when Tchividjian addresses the issue of “antinomianism.” Antinomianism is the belief that the law is irrelevant and unimportant for the Christian, and is a philosophy which Gothard has oft accused his critics of espousing. Gothard has “warned” in several writings that those who believe grace to be God’s unmerited favor are in danger of turning grace into a license to sin. However, Tullian believes this to be utterly impossible, stating that antinomianism is an impossible heresy. Those who have truly been captivated by God’s grace are not capable of abusing it, and those that turn to licentiousness are simply substituting their own law for God’s. According to Tchividjian, “grace inspires what the Law demands. The Law prescribes good works, but only grace can produce them.”

 

 

Yeah...that sounds familiar

 

It sounds familiar because it is legitimate.  But hey, if it is impossible for a real Christian to abuse God's grace, we don't need the church, we don't need a Bible, we don't need this guy's book.  We can't fail.  Why did the Bible even give us warnings about bad behavior?  I guess it was just to take up space, and make the book longer?  Why do we need fellowship with other believers as we see the day of the Lord approaching?  It is a heresy to think we can abuse God's grace and fall?  What a wonderful salvation you liberated Christians have found?  It is amazing, and yet I still feel the need to try to follow the Bible's teachings?  I still feel bad if I sin.  There is definitely something wrong here. 

 

 

Us liberated Christians who rely on God and His gift of grace, still read the bible, and follow it's teachings. It is just our motivation is different.

 

It goes along with the scripture verse, we love God because He first loved us.

 

No worries though, since you can't fail.  The funny thing about all of this is that if someone is found to be in sin, people will just say they were never really saved, so all this so-called assurance of salvation is really not legitimate.  Take you for instance.  Lets say that right now you are following the Bible's teachings, but a year from now you turn back into sin.  If these teachings are true, it doesn't matter, but at the same time, that harms the teaching that those who are saved will live right, "because God first loves us."  Most would say you were never really saved.  Catch 22.  I honestly don't know how anyone can believe that kind of doctrine?  If you can't fail, you can't fail, so you could do anything you want.  You could go out and party every night, steal, commit adultery, even commit murder, and it wouldn't really matter.  Those things are all laws, yet the Bible says if you do those things you won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  As far as I am concerned, your motives don't matter.  If scripture says you can't get into heaven while in sin, that's what it means, so if you feel better about yourself saying you are motivations are different from mine, so be it.  The result of sin is still the same.