Parents long ago stood in long lines with their children to see Santa

[Guest Butero]

I've never seen such rivalry between the pro-Santa and the anti-Santa crowd since feuds between the pre-Tribbers and post-Tribbers,.

What is taking place is you have people that teach their kids Santa Claus is real getting upset that some of us wouldn't do that because we believe it is lying to kids.  Rather than just accepting the fact that some of us think it is wrong, they have to attack us as extremists, kill joys or odd balls.  It is the same thing that happens in regard to a whole host of issues.  People come seeking answers to questions, and there are some who will get mad if everyone doesn't agree with them.  A person will ask if we should rest on Saturday, and some will say that is law and we aren't under law.  When someone says we must rest on Saturday, they are attacked as legalists or any other nasty name they can come up with to try to get them to shut up.  I don't believe we are bound to rest on a particular calendar day, but I am not offended some do believe that, and they say so.  The offended people aren't those who feel like things are wrong, but those who don't believe things are wrong, and can't stand the fact an opinon other than their own is allowed. 

[sweethomeliving]

 

I don't think you are really suggesting that children who believe in Santa Claus become pathological liars!! And you are correct in saying that children have plenty of time to develop their imagination without Santa. As I said, I did not let my children believe in Santa Claus. My contribution here is from my experience in parenting children who are now in their 20's. In retrospect, if I had my parenting years to do all over again, I would lighten up on a lot of issues--Santa being one.

I think it is about as likely that children that are told Santa Claus is real will turn out to be patholigical liars as it is that children that are not taught Santa Claus is real will turn out to be analytical, logical and boring.  I don't think there is any connection. 

 

It comes across like you are thinking your children would have turned out better had you done things different.  Are you saying they are logical, analytical and boring, and you think that is because you didn't let them use their imagination enough?  The only reason I am asking is because you said you have changed your opinion in retrospect concerning how you did things. 

 

No my brother, I am not disappointed in what my children have become or the fruits of my parenting (and I thought I said as much in an earlier post).  I simply view the whole issue differently from what I used to. and I was simply trying to provide other information to give people food for thought. I have no problems with people choosing not to tell their children about Santa Claus. I take no offense and don't wish to cause any.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

I don't think you are really suggesting that children who believe in Santa Claus become pathological liars!! And you are correct in saying that children have plenty of time to develop their imagination without Santa. As I said, I did not let my children believe in Santa Claus. My contribution here is from my experience in parenting children who are now in their 20's. In retrospect, if I had my parenting years to do all over again, I would lighten up on a lot of issues--Santa being one.

I think it is about as likely that children that are told Santa Claus is real will turn out to be patholigical liars as it is that children that are not taught Santa Claus is real will turn out to be analytical, logical and boring.  I don't think there is any connection. 

 

It comes across like you are thinking your children would have turned out better had you done things different.  Are you saying they are logical, analytical and boring, and you think that is because you didn't let them use their imagination enough?  The only reason I am asking is because you said you have changed your opinion in retrospect concerning how you did things. 

 

No my brother, I am not disappointed in what my children have become or the fruits of my parenting (and I thought I said as much in an earlier post).  I simply view the whole issue differently from what I used to. and I was simply trying to provide other information to give people food for thought. I have no problems with people choosing not to tell their children about Santa Claus. I take no offense and don't wish to cause any.

 

I am glad you aren't feeling bad about the way your children turned out.  If they are good people, you have no reason to second guess what you did.  Had you been the person you wish you had been, perhaps they wouldn't have turned out as well?  There is no way to know. 

 

Anyway, I have no problem with your change of heart, even if it isn't what I believe.  God bless, and welcome to WB. 

[LadyKay]

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

if the child believes it's the actual Cinderella from the book, then yes, they are lying.

Seriously? Are we now going to argue about Cinderella?

Why do you care?  Why do people get so upset because others think certain things are wrong?  I put up a Christmas tree, and it doesn't bother me some people accuse me of doing something that was an idolatrous OT practice.  I celebrate Christmas in spite of all the attacks each year.  I don't get upset because people are trying to save me from doing wrong.  Why can't people just accept that we all look at things different, and in a message board, we won't all agree?  I don't believe in lying to kids about Santa Claus and fairy tale characters, but I have made it clear I don't believe in interfering with what parents do, even if they don't agree with me.  If asked, I will give my opinion, but nobody has to agree. 

 

Okay I see now. You all who are, I guess for lack of a better term anti-Santa can just post on here and tell  how you all feel about Santa.And us pro-Santa people are just suppose to sit back and not say boo. It is really not much fun debating against people who are all on your side.( can you debate against people who agree with you)   But if  my disagreeing point of view is no longer welcome. I will move on to the next topic and let all the anti-Santa people talk among yourselves. Carry on.

[ayin jade]

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

if the child believes it's the actual Cinderella from the book, then yes, they are lying.

Seriously? Are we now going to argue about Cinderella?

 

Thank you, LadyKay. I've been wondering about that myself. :thumsup:

 

Cinderella did mess up a lot of girls thinking about marriage lol.

[Qnts2]

 

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

That is pretty much life in modern america. You cant have fun any more without it offending someone. Isnt PC fun?

 

The pro-Santa crowd is the ones getting offended.  Those of us who don't believe in lying to kids aren't offended at all.  We are just giving an opinion, and getting attacked for holding that opinon.  I made it clear that individual parents have the right to make their own decisions with regard to Santa Claus. 

 

 

I am fighting on the pro-Santa side, even though I have never believed in Santa, did not grow up celebrating Christmas, do not celebrate Christmas now, nor taught anyone about Santa. My argument is against calling parents who have told their children the legend/fairytale about Santa, liars.

 

For me, this has nothing to do with the Santa debate, but if calling the parents liars, because they tell their young children a fairytale (which everyone does, whether the fairytale is about Santa or some other fairytale). A child will believe fairytales to be real, and often parents allow the children to believe because that is a developmental stage, and they will agree with the childs belief, knowing it is a developmental stage which is short lived, and later, the children will not believe fairytales to be true. When children believe in fairytales, it is fun and exciting for them. 

 

But, calling parents liars and accusing them of lying to their children is an issue for me.    

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

if the child believes it's the actual Cinderella from the book, then yes, they are lying.

Seriously? Are we now going to argue about Cinderella?

Why do you care?  Why do people get so upset because others think certain things are wrong?  I put up a Christmas tree, and it doesn't bother me some people accuse me of doing something that was an idolatrous OT practice.  I celebrate Christmas in spite of all the attacks each year.  I don't get upset because people are trying to save me from doing wrong.  Why can't people just accept that we all look at things different, and in a message board, we won't all agree?  I don't believe in lying to kids about Santa Claus and fairy tale characters, but I have made it clear I don't believe in interfering with what parents do, even if they don't agree with me.  If asked, I will give my opinion, but nobody has to agree. 

 

Okay I see now. You all who are, I guess for lack of a better term anti-Santa can just post on here and tell  how you all feel about Santa.And us pro-Santa people are just suppose to sit back and not say boo. It is really not much fun debating against people who are all on your side.( can you debate against people who agree with you)   But if  my disagreeing point of view is no longer welcome. I will move on to the next topic and let all the anti-Santa people talk among yourselves. Carry on.

 

No you don't see.  I am saying we don't get offended because people disagree with us.  We don't get upset because others believe teaching Santa Claus is ok.  Your side gets mad that anyone would actually think teaching Santa Claus is wrong, and they set out to stomp out the opposing view.  I have no interest in stomping out your view.  I want to hear your side.  You are attacking the people for  holding the position they do. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

That is pretty much life in modern america. You cant have fun any more without it offending someone. Isnt PC fun?

 

The pro-Santa crowd is the ones getting offended.  Those of us who don't believe in lying to kids aren't offended at all.  We are just giving an opinion, and getting attacked for holding that opinon.  I made it clear that individual parents have the right to make their own decisions with regard to Santa Claus. 

 

 

I am fighting on the pro-Santa side, even though I have never believed in Santa, did not grow up celebrating Christmas, do not celebrate Christmas now, nor taught anyone about Santa. My argument is against calling parents who have told their children the legend/fairytale about Santa, liars.

 

For me, this has nothing to do with the Santa debate, but if calling the parents liars, because they tell their young children a fairytale (which everyone does, whether the fairytale is about Santa or some other fairytale). A child will believe fairytales to be real, and often parents allow the children to believe because that is a developmental stage, and they will agree with the childs belief, knowing it is a developmental stage which is short lived, and later, the children will not believe fairytales to be true. When children believe in fairytales, it is fun and exciting for them. 

 

But, calling parents liars and accusing them of lying to their children is an issue for me.    

 

I am not calling parents liars in the sense of attacking them because they tell their children Santa Claus is coming down the chimney with presents so they need to go to bed early.  I am not calling parents liars for putting out milk and cookies and telling their kids Santa Claus will eat them.  The children aren't coming to those conclusions on their own.  The parents are telling them those things are real.  Even so, I am not attacking the parents, but there is no question that since Santa Claus is not coming down the chimney, and he is not going to eat the milk and cookies left out, those things are lies.  They are not true, so by definition, they are lies.  I wouldn't tell children those things are real, but all parents have to decide for themselves what they do. 

[Sevenseas]

When you read such nonsense about someone's use of an icon, you know there is stuff going on in this thread that lies under the surface.

 

I always thought that icon simply meant something like "listen up" or "here's a point I want to make"...I don't think it means loser...maybe in some circles,

but it seems offense is being taken where none is meant.

 

If someone believes that all imagination is wrong then IMO, that is a personal belief and fine to make a point but calling parents liars because of the

Santa myth and then believing that the name is an anagram for Satan and saying the name Nick is evil, is looking for demons under every rock IMO.

 

I don't think telling children about Santa is necessairly the way I would go, but calling parents who do decide to say the presents under the tree are from

Santa liars, sounds to me like issues that may not even have anything to do with Santa.

 

This has become another thread that takes up all the oxygen in the room and leaves you wondering what is really going on IMO

[LadyKay]

 

 

 

Remember when life as simpler? You could be a Christian and put up a Christmas tree without anyone accusing you of worshiping trees. You could tell your kids stories about Santa without anyone making Santa out to be Satan. The guy who wrote the  poem "Night Before Christmas" was a minister, who wrote it as a bedtime story for his children. Sometimes I think we Christians try to complicate everything. Looking for evil at every turn. We have grown afraid to have fun , for fear that it may lead to evil in someway. This does not just go along with Christmas, but in almost every holiday. You can't even carve a pumpkin on Halloween without some one accusing you of worshiping the devil. Is this really how we want to live? Fearing that Christmas tress and pumpkins will send us and our children to hell?

 

 

if the child believes it's the actual Cinderella from the book, then yes, they are lying.

Seriously? Are we now going to argue about Cinderella?

Why do you care?  Why do people get so upset because others think certain things are wrong?  I put up a Christmas tree, and it doesn't bother me some people accuse me of doing something that was an idolatrous OT practice.  I celebrate Christmas in spite of all the attacks each year.  I don't get upset because people are trying to save me from doing wrong.  Why can't people just accept that we all look at things different, and in a message board, we won't all agree?  I don't believe in lying to kids about Santa Claus and fairy tale characters, but I have made it clear I don't believe in interfering with what parents do, even if they don't agree with me.  If asked, I will give my opinion, but nobody has to agree. 

 

Okay I see now. You all who are, I guess for lack of a better term anti-Santa can just post on here and tell  how you all feel about Santa.And us pro-Santa people are just suppose to sit back and not say boo. It is really not much fun debating against people who are all on your side.( can you debate against people who agree with you)   But if  my disagreeing point of view is no longer welcome. I will move on to the next topic and let all the anti-Santa people talk among yourselves. Carry on.

 

No you don't see.  I am saying we don't get offended because people disagree with us.  We don't get upset because others believe teaching Santa Claus is ok.  Your side gets mad that anyone would actually think teaching Santa Claus is wrong, and they set out to stomp out the opposing view.  I have no interest in stomping out your view.  I want to hear your side.  You are attacking the people for  holding the position they do. 

 

I am not offended. Could you please point out to me how you think I am attacking you. I felt that I wrote a very nice post on how life use to be simpler. Next thing I know I have people accusing me of attacking them. A disagreement is not an attack. You say you want to hear my side. But then when I post my side you accuse me of attacking you. So which is it?

 

I did not realize I would upset someone by picking the wrong icon. Perhaps if people feel certain icons are hurtful, maybe they should be removed.