Tongues Evidence?

[His_disciple3]

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

so in other word you can't explain the Knowledge vanishing so we ignore it, if what ever "the perfect one comes" means has already happened as Most Baptist preach, and tongues has ceased then knowledge has vanished, which can't be for Biblical knowledge is to know good and evil, right and wrong. and if Knowledge hasn't vanished then tongues hasn't ceased and if knowledge has vanished we wouldn't know if it is good to speak tongues or not

Edited December 24, 2013 by His_disciple3

[His_disciple3]

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

 

After being here for over ten years now might I suggest that it works best when you just ignore some folks.  Post your thoughts and let the rest of us decide.  We're not all close minded.

If some are not closed minded, then knowledge has not vanished, if knowledge has not vanished then "when the perfect comes" could not have happened yet and tongues aren't ceased Yet.

[other one]

 

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

so in other word you can't explain the Knowledge vanishing so we ignore it, if what ever "the perfect one comes" means has already happened as Most Baptist preach, and tongues has ceased then knowledge has vanished, which can't be for Biblical knowledge is to know good and evil, right and wrong. and if Knowledge hasn't vanished then tongues hasn't ceased and if knowledge has vanished we wouldn't know if it is good to speak tongues or not

 

I have a question.....    instead of telling us what Baptists preach, why don't we just listen and comment to what Reformed is writing...     I really don't understand your approach here...

[Guest]

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

 

~

 

Much love to you,

 

Not referring to what anyone has said or quoted...just this: I saw someone that had recorded her "speaking in tongues" and had taken the recording to a university...They discovered that her "speaking in tongues"-that she didn't understand-was a very little known language-I think they said it was practically extinct...yet she was speaking it!!! My my...

 

I truly believe that if we had a record of "every single thing" that ever happened in the day of Jesus...there wouldn't be enough books to contain it...

 

Much is revealed by The Holy Spirit...Who leads and guides us into All Truth...Whew...Oh Yes He Does...Our Jesus Is Alive and Sits At The Right Hand of The Father...Praying for us...His Word is Alive...and His Word is True...Much love to you In Him...Jesus, Our Lord...

 

 

lol ~ God Is Good

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

~

 

Prayer

 

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

 

Is A Gift

 

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 1:20-21

 

Of Grace And Of Wonder

 

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:26-2

 

So Why All The

 

But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:24-25

 

Warfare?

 

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[other one]

 

 

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

 

After being here for over ten years now might I suggest that it works best when you just ignore some folks.  Post your thoughts and let the rest of us decide.  We're not all close minded.

 

If some are not closed minded, then knowledge has not vanished, if knowledge has not vanished then "when the perfect comes" could not have happened yet and tongues aren't ceased Yet.

 

I pray in tongues every single night and have since the Holy Spirit dragged me out of bed about 2 AM one morning in 1985  because my wife was about to get dressed and go out into our back yard to see what was making a lot of noise.    Set me right up in the bed babbling in some weird sounds that I didn't know anything about for about five minutes until my wife got this really strong thought that what she was about to do was not smart.   Then it shoved me out of the bed and pushed my face flat on the floor and I prayed in English for nearly 20 minutes until the noise stopped.   I called my wife after that because I was so shaken up and that's when I learned about the noise.  I was hundreds and hundreds of miles away from home when this happened.

I have been awaken many nights since then to pray for others.....   sometimes I find out who and why and sometimes I don't.  Sometimes when I'm asked to pray for someone it doesn't come out in English....   sometimes I find out why and other times I don't.   Sometimes it's just private between them and God and it's really none of my business except someone needed to pray.

I have no idea of why we even need to pray for people for the Lord knows what we all need, but it appears that we do, so I go for it with all the gusto I can manage most of the time.

 

So where does that leave me if tongues are not supposed to exist.    Am I nuts or something, and how in the world could I know my wife was about to do something as dumb as walk out into a dark back yard when people were out there making a lot of noise....  obviously to get her out of the house.

 

 

So I am not exactly open minded about this subject, but I do like to give others a chance to express their thoughts on things and I do listen.

[GoldenEagle]

Going forward please debate the subject and not the person. Respect each other in the love of God! Please review and follow the Terms of Service. Some excerpts I'd highlight below:

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted!

 

Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

Fair warning: Those who do not follow the Terms of Service will be banned from the thread.

God bless,

GE

[His_disciple3]

 

 

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

so in other word you can't explain the Knowledge vanishing so we ignore it, if what ever "the perfect one comes" means has already happened as Most Baptist preach, and tongues has ceased then knowledge has vanished, which can't be for Biblical knowledge is to know good and evil, right and wrong. and if Knowledge hasn't vanished then tongues hasn't ceased and if knowledge has vanished we wouldn't know if it is good to speak tongues or not

 

I have a question.....    instead of telling us what Baptists preach, why don't we just listen and comment to what Reformed is writing...     I really don't understand your approach here...

 

well first I didn't know this was all about Reformed, I thought it was an open forum about "tongues evidence". my post are available for both sides to read. I have Not personal addressed Reformed in any way, and said this is the way you believe, only have I address Reformed as the Reformed Baptist(he is the one that has openly put the Baptist tag on himself), and several times have I said this is the way most Baptist believe, I being Baptist myself, know that some Baptist believe in the baptism That Jesus, John the Baptist and paul taught about in scriptures, and the Spiritual gifts that comes with that Baptism. It is hard at times to tell with the forum who is saying what, My first response was to a post that had said that tongue had ceased, I was addressing the issue of the Post, I think it was Reformed was the one that said the perfect one don't mean perfect, and couldn't mean a person, when That is all that it can mean, for only When Jesus returns and we then being in our fullness will knowledge vanish as it was in the garden before knowledge was with man. and started addressing the tongues part of said reference verse. and he did just focus on the tongue even after I pointed out The knowledge mentioned in the very same verse, He boasted on His study of scripture, so I looked for an answer of when knowledge vanished, which has been avoided and all this is now, is how I have attacked Reformed. I don't know Reformed Baptist personally, and have nothing against him to me this is about true doctrine of what the Bible teaches on "tongue evidence" I did listen to Reformed when he said that perfect don't mean perfect, and this is our first step to entering into false doctrine, when we say the Bible don't mean what it says. can we get back to the topic of the post now as I open my question to All that believe that tongues has ceased according to 1 cor. 13. Please tell me when Knowledge vanished? Merry Christmas all!!!

Jude 17-20

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

KJV

 

Edited December 25, 2013 by His_disciple3

[other one]

 

can we get back to the topic of the post now as I open my question to All that believe that tongues has ceased according to 1 cor. 13. Please tell me when Knowledge vanished? Merry Christmas all!!!

 

Well if they can do that, they might also explain what happens to me when I get those unctions to just open my mouth and speak things I don't understand.

 

and Merry Christmas

[His_disciple3]

Jude 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Edited December 25, 2013 by His_disciple3

[Reformed Baptist]

 

Friend, I have tried to be reasonable, and I have asked politely for you to let me speak. However it seems obvious to me that you believe you understand my theology, and my motives far better then I do and therefore you are not prepared to let my words stand on their own merit - so there is nothing more for me to say! there is one thing that is certain, and that is that one of us appears to be somewhat closed minded.

so in other word you can't explain the Knowledge vanishing so we ignore it, if what ever "the perfect one comes" means has already happened as Most Baptist preach, and tongues has ceased then knowledge has vanished, which can't be for Biblical knowledge is to know good and evil, right and wrong. and if Knowledge hasn't vanished then tongues hasn't ceased and if knowledge has vanished we wouldn't know if it is good to speak tongues or not

 

 

I am not ignoring anything. I do not believe tongues have ceased according to 1 Cor 13. I have explained the text you refer to in detail and I have shown why it is not relevant to what I am saying and why it does not (or should not) form part of the cessationist argument. The whole point of what Paul is saying is that these gifts are temporary, and will eventaully pass away, but gifts like love will endure, so long for that enduring gift, and not the passing ones - I can do no more in regards to this straw-man I am afraid.

 

Also, I have asked you cite sources for your claims of what baptist's teach, none has been forthcoming! The reason I am challenging this is because I am a baptist, and I don't teach what you say, and further more no particular baptists do as far as I can tell. The idea that 'baptists' all hold to a single uniform theology seems to be somewhat of an oxymoron to me - we baptists have always been a diverse bunch my friend, some are pelagian, some semi, some Arminian, some Amyraldian some are Calvinists, some are hyper Calvinists, we have different views on the ends days, and so the list goes on - so maybe we have different views on the gifts as well - which is why it is best to let another speak and address the arguments they are making, not the ones we would like them to make because we have heard them before and we have an answer for that one already

 

The simple fact is my friend, that as I see it the onus of proof is not on the cessationist camp, but on the continuationist camp. History demonstrates that tongues have ceased (at least for periods in history), historic theology demonstrates that the vast majority of Bible believing Christians have not viewed tongues as being a gift for their own day, and the biblical gift of tongues (human languages) is not what we usually see today, rather what we usually see is exactly what Paul was trying to stop happening in Corinth (people thinking the spectactular gifts were more important then the mundane [the purposes of 1 Cor 13] and everyone was at it with no order, which is what 1 Cor 14 is all about.) Indeed what we see to day is the 'gift' taking to an extreme beyond that which was happening in Corinth. 

 

Hence I am not a cessationist by tradition or mere conviction - but by evidence (biblical and historic) - I am open to be convinced that tongues continue today, but to be convinced I need to see some contradictory evidence that demonstrates:

 

1) It is the same gift as detailed in the Bible (Acts 2 being the only text that contains such detail)  

2) Serve a revelatory and sign purpose (as tongues did in the early church)(Acts 2, 1 Cor 12-14)

3) Is being demonstrated in line with Paul's didactic teaching on the subject (1 Cor 12-14)

4) It is a gift for the church (not just individual or individual congregations) (Acts 2, 1 Cor 12-14)

 

Anything that cannot address and satisfy all those criteria is not the biblical gift of tongues. Now, to be fair, my level of evidence may be faulty, and that is open for challenge. Too often today though positions are defendedg not by making a positive case for them, but by merely seeking to disprove the oppositions case by any means possible, as if proving your opponent wrong must mean you are right. Now that is relatively easy to do (any old unskilled labourer can destroy in seconds what it took skilled builders years to build). However such a negative argument, does not in reality make a case. As Christians we are called to be edifiers, we are supposed to be building each other up. So, my friend, make your case if you wish to do so

Edited December 25, 2013 by Reformed Baptist