Is 'soul sleep' doctrinal?

[Guest DRS81]

It's not only the word, there's nothing there that says believers go to Heaven. It seems you dealing with inferences again.

 

But explain why you think these scriptures are not speaking about soul sleep being false. Acts 7:59/Eze 32:27/Phil 1:23

[Butch5]

 

It's not only the word, there's nothing there that says believers go to Heaven. It seems you dealing with inferences again.

 

But explain why you think these scriptures are not speaking about soul sleep being false. Acts 7:59/Eze 32:27/Phil 1:23

 

You posted them saying they show that people go to Heaven when they die, how's that? Where do they teach that people go to Heaven?

[Guest DRS81]

 

 

It's not only the word, there's nothing there that says believers go to Heaven. It seems you dealing with inferences again.

 

But explain why you think these scriptures are not speaking about soul sleep being false. Acts 7:59/Eze 32:27/Phil 1:23

 

You posted them saying they show that people go to Heaven when they die, how's that? Where do they teach that people go to Heaven?

 

 

They are teaching that soul sleep is false.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

I just don't see any examples of people going to Heaven until after Christ ascends.  They went to Paradise in the center of the earth, fixed with hell with a gulf in between.  Jesus even said that NO MAN has been to the Kingdom of God except Him.  So at that very point, no man has been to Heaven. 

[saved34]

Well I don't understand in that context.  Being born of water AND Spirit...they are two different things.  Baptism doesn't lead to salvation because it's a work and works don't save you.  Water isn't spiritual.  It's a physical substance.  It speaks of being born again, so the first time you are born, you are born from water.  The second time is spiritual.  But we can agree to disagree.

The two things or power and person God uses to birth us into his family is the word (the Gospel message of your salvation) and The Holy Spirit. The scriptures are ripe with passages that say God has birthed us through his word which would answer to the "water" that Christ talked about.

 

Jas 1:18  He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. 

 

1Pe 1:23  For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 

 

When our Lord said man must be born of the water and the Spirit, the Apostle Paul summed it up in Ephesians 1.When you heard the Gospel and believed the Gospel you were birthed into God's kingdom. You received the Holy Spirit and were sealed in Christ until the day of Christ's return. 

 

Eph 1:13  And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 

 

 

The Gospel message delivered by the Holy Spirit births sinners into God's kingdom. The water of the Word of God and the Power of the Holy Spirit.

 

Tit 3:5  he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 

 

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 

 

[anthonyjmcgirr]

I'm sorry I just don't see it. It keeps talking about being born "AGAIN". Meaning being born a second time.  You must be born of water and of Spirit meaning you must be born first of water (birth), then of Spirit (Accepting Christ and having the Holy Spirit come living inside you).  It's a two step process.  This is what separates us from the angels.  They cannot be born, hence they are incapable of salvation. 

[Butch5]

 

 

 

It's not only the word, there's nothing there that says believers go to Heaven. It seems you dealing with inferences again.

 

But explain why you think these scriptures are not speaking about soul sleep being false. Acts 7:59/Eze 32:27/Phil 1:23

 

You posted them saying they show that people go to Heaven when they die, how's that? Where do they teach that people go to Heaven?

 

 

They are teaching that soul sleep is false.

They're not  but that's not why you posted them. I asked for Scripture that says believers go to Heaven and you posted these verses. They don't say anything about anyone going to Heaven.

[Guest DRS81]

 

 

Which of these says believers go to Heaven when they die? I don't see anything mentioned about Heaven in any of them.

 

Forget about the afterlife for a second. Do you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? Do you believe he died for your sins and that you can either accept or reject is salvation?

 

Which of those passages say believers go to Heaven when they die?

 

 

I literally do not know how to talk to you anymore. I'm trying to understand who you are and what background you're coming from. These questions are vital to understanding who you are. When you don't answer them, it doesn't look good on your character. People would just assume you're a false prophet. I don't wanna assume anything about you. I'm trying my hardest to be patient and kind and nice to you and understanding, but there comes a point where I'm gonna have to wash my hands of this debate. I don't even know what we're doing anymore. You've got me so confused that the only thing left to do is leave this thread. I'm going to ask you one more time. If you don't answer I'm walking away from this thread. Do you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? Do you believe he died for your sins and that you can either accept or reject his salvation?

[saved34]

I'm sorry I just don't see it. It keeps talking about being born "AGAIN". Meaning being born a second time.  You must be born of water and of Spirit meaning you must be born first of water (birth), then of Spirit (Accepting Christ and having the Holy Spirit come living inside you).  It's a two step process.  This is what separates us from the angels.  They cannot be born, hence they are incapable of salvation. 

 

Well, if you are trying to push for water baptismal regeneration I would have to disagree with you. Scripture is clear that we are born through God's Holy word. We are born "again" or as scripture says, new creations in Christ. Read the verses I posted for your self. In fact scripture speaks of only one baptism, and that would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit that places us in the body of Christ upon hearing the truth of the Gospel. 

 

Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 

 

 

1Co 12:13  For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 

 

The two step process is instantaneous upon faith in the Gospel message or more direct, faith in Christ. Scripture speaks of this baptism as a forgone conclusion. There is no second step, if you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are not his. You are not sealed, you are not in the Body of Christ. 

[Butch5]

 

 

 

Which of these says believers go to Heaven when they die? I don't see anything mentioned about Heaven in any of them.

 

Forget about the afterlife for a second. Do you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? Do you believe he died for your sins and that you can either accept or reject is salvation?

 

Which of those passages say believers go to Heaven when they die?

 

 

I literally do not know how to talk to you anymore. I'm trying to understand who you are and what background you're coming from. These questions are vital to understanding who you are. When you don't answer them, it doesn't look good on your character. People would just assume you're a false prophet. I don't wanna assume anything about you. I'm trying my hardest to be patient and kind and nice to you and understanding, but there comes a point where I'm gonna have to wash my hands of this debate. I don't even know what we're doing anymore. You've got me so confused that the only thing left to do is leave this thread. I'm going to ask you one more time. If you don't answer I'm walking away from this thread. Do you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? Do you believe he died for your sins and that you can either accept or reject his salvation?

 

Can I assume that you're not going to tell me how the passages you posted talk about people going to Heaven?