Is 'soul sleep' doctrinal?

[Butch5]

DRS81---

 

The OP is about soul sleep. It's important not to take the word 'sleep' out of context. When they 'sleep' after death in the Bible, they are referring to the body only, not the soul and spirit.

 

Sleep is used as a metaphor in the Bible for death. It’s not speaking of the body only. It’s speaking of the person.  There’s no distinction made between the body and the soul. If the body sleeps (is dead) the soul sleeps (is dead).  A soul does not exist apart from a body.

Hi Butch5. Where does Paul say that ONLY the Father has immortality, what scripture are you referring too. I think Paul is saying believers are GRANTED immortality THROUGH the Father only, because immortality is a gift from God THROUGH the salvation of the cross. The cross is what separates sinners from Holy men, mortality to immortality. God giving them life is the definition of immortality Butch. The definition of immortality and eternity is never dying. I think you're just confused on the words. You are using synonyms and not knowing it(immortality/eternal life).

 

Not at all. The idea of soul sleep is applied to both the believer and the unbeliever. Their soul is said to be asleep until the time of Judgment. If man was immortal he would not need the eternal life, the gift of God. If he was immortal then both the believer and the unbeliever would have eternal life which is only promised to the believer in the Scriptures. The distinction that I’m making is between man being immortal by nature or God giving him eternal life. The difference being if God is giving him life that giving can stop if God chooses to do so.  If man is immortal by nature God does not need to give him life. The Scriptures say that God “gives”  (present tense) life. Job said if God retrieves His spirit and His breath all flesh would die.

 

The passage from Paul is in 1 Tim.

 

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)

Immortality is a gift because you are only immortal when you reach salvation in Jesus Christ, and salvation through Jesus is a gift from God. Immortality IS eternal life, they are the same thing. Yes, man needs God to live, but we only live when we accept Jesus into our hearts by grace and faith. I think you're just confused on the words. You are using synonyms and not knowing it (immortality/eternal life). I think we need to understand these posts first before going into Matt 17. Let's put Matt 17 aside for now.

 

If man was immortal he wouldn’t die. Believers and unbelievers all die, thus man is not immortal.

I’m not confusing anything. The issue is where the life stem from. The idea of the immortal soul is widespread in the human population. Most believe there is some form of life as a spirit, soul, or ghost after they die. This is the part they claim is immortal. The Bible doesn’t teach that. It teaches that man consists of a body and the breath/spirit of God. When a man die his body returns to the dust and God’s breath/spirit returns to Him. There is nothing left to live on. This is what the Scriptures teach.  This shows that man is not immortal but receives his life from God.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Butch5

[Openly Curious]

According to the scripture there is a "distinction" between the body, the soul and the spirit.  Man is a three part being made up of a body, a soul and a spirit. 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray your "whole" spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord. 

 

So there is a distinction between the body and spirit in the scriptures as this verse shows.  

[Guest DRS81]

If man was immortal he would not need the eternal life, the gift of God. If he was immortal then both the believer and the unbeliever would have eternal life which is only promised to the believer in the Scriptures. The distinction that I’m making is between man being immortal by nature or God giving him eternal life. The difference being if God is giving him life that giving can stop if God chooses to do so.  If man is immortal by nature God does not need to give him life. The Scriptures say that God “gives”  (present tense) life.

 

But you're not understanding something, you're leaving something out and that's salvation. When God gives us eternal life, the only way to be granted that gift is repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus into your heart while still alive on this old earth. Do you understand what I mean by that? Man cannot become immortal on his own, he cannot become immortal by nature. The day when a nonbeliever becomes a believer through salvation in Jesus Christ is when he is now immortal. It's only through Jesus Christ that we become immortal. One day we will all die and have a funeral and be buried in our graves, but scripture tells us that our soul lives on awaiting our bodily resurrection.

 

If man was immortal he wouldn’t die. Believers and unbelievers all die, thus man is not immortal.

I’m not confusing anything. The issue is where the life stem from. The idea of the immortal soul is widespread in the human population. Most believe there is some form of life as a spirit, soul, or ghost after they die. This is the part they claim is immortal. The Bible doesn’t teach that. It teaches that man consists of a body and the breath/spirit of God. When a man die his body returns to the dust and God’s breath/spirit returns to Him. There is nothing left to live on. This is what the Scriptures teach.  This shows that man is not immortal but receives his life from God.

 

You are taking the word immortality out of context. Yes believers and unbelievers will all die one day, but the believer IS IN FACT immortal. His soul will live on in heaven. The believer was granted eternal life/immortality because he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart while still alive on this old earth. Immortality and physically dying and having a funeral cannot be compared. Immortality explains the condition of the believer's soul while being alive on this old earth, because he accepted Jesus into his heart. Dying and having a funeral is just the natural process of life. Living and dying is the natural process because we live in a fallen world, but the believers soul never dies. This is called the afterlife, immortality of the believer continues on and ventures into the afterlife.

 

Life inside a nonbeliever and life inside a believer cannot be compared. Life inside a nonbeliever is not life because he is already condemned to hell. Yes he was born with life in his mothers womb, but everyone is condemned to hell when born into this world. The only way to change that is through Jesus Christ, because Jesus is that bridge that we all need that connects us back to the Father. Life inside a believer however is eternal life through Jesus Christ. He became a believer because he accepted Jesus into his heart while still alive on this old earth. If a nonbeliever thinks he is immortal then he is believing a lie. The Bible DOES teach the spirit and soul of the believer is immortal and goes to heaven, but you had turned down the scriptures that I gave you, and so be it.

 

Man consists of a body, soul and spirit. The reason we have a soul and spirit is BECAUSE GOD BREATHED IT INTO US. God's breath/spirit IS your soul THAT RETURNS TO HIM. Now whether your spirit and soul is in fact saved or not well, that's a different story. Just because God breathed life into man doesn't mean that man is saved yet (Gen 2:7). God gave us original life so we can make a decision in our original life to accept Jesus into our hearts and be granted eternal life. There are two types of lives, original/condemned life and eternal life. - DRS81

[missmuffet]

 

If man was immortal he would not need the eternal life, the gift of God. If he was immortal then both the believer and the unbeliever would have eternal life which is only promised to the believer in the Scriptures. The distinction that I’m making is between man being immortal by nature or God giving him eternal life. The difference being if God is giving him life that giving can stop if God chooses to do so.  If man is immortal by nature God does not need to give him life. The Scriptures say that God “gives”  (present tense) life.

 

But you're not understanding something, you're leaving something out and that's salvation. When God gives us eternal life, the only way to be granted that gift is repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus into your heart while still alive on this old earth. Do you understand what I mean by that? Man cannot become immortal on his own, he cannot become immortal by nature. The day when a nonbeliever becomes a believer through salvation in Jesus Christ is when he is now immortal. It's only through Jesus Christ that we become immortal. One day we will all die and have a funeral and be buried in our graves, but scripture tells us that our soul lives on awaiting our bodily resurrection.

 

If man was immortal he wouldn’t die. Believers and unbelievers all die, thus man is not immortal.

I’m not confusing anything. The issue is where the life stem from. The idea of the immortal soul is widespread in the human population. Most believe there is some form of life as a spirit, soul, or ghost after they die. This is the part they claim is immortal. The Bible doesn’t teach that. It teaches that man consists of a body and the breath/spirit of God. When a man die his body returns to the dust and God’s breath/spirit returns to Him. There is nothing left to live on. This is what the Scriptures teach.  This shows that man is not immortal but receives his life from God.

 

You are taking the word immortality out of context. Yes believers and unbelievers will all die one day, but the believer IS IN FACT immortal. His soul will live on in heaven. The believer was granted eternal life/immortality because he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart while still alive on this old earth. Immortality and physically dying and having a funeral cannot be compared. Immortality explains the condition of the believer's soul while being alive on this old earth, because he accepted Jesus into his heart. Dying and having a funeral is just the natural process of life. Living and dying is the natural process because we live in a fallen world, but the believers soul never dies. This is called the afterlife, immortality of the believer continues on and ventures into the afterlife.

 

Life inside a nonbeliever and life inside a believer cannot be compared. Life inside a nonbeliever is not life because he is already condemned to hell. Yes he was born with life in his mothers womb, but everyone is condemned to hell when born into this world. The only way to change that is through Jesus Christ, because Jesus is that bridge that we all need that connects us back to the Father. Life inside a believer however is eternal life through Jesus Christ. He became a believer because he accepted Jesus into his heart while still alive on this old earth. If a nonbeliever thinks he is immortal then he is believing a lie. The Bible DOES teach the spirit and soul of the believer is immortal and goes to heaven, but you had turned down the scriptures that I gave you, and so be it.

 

Man consists of a body, soul and spirit. The reason we have a soul and spirit is BECAUSE GOD BREATHED IT INTO US. God's breath/spirit IS your soul THAT RETURNS TO HIM. Now whether your spirit and soul is in fact saved or not well, that's a different story. Just because God breathed life into man doesn't mean that man is saved yet (Gen 2:7). God gave us original life so we can make a decision in our original life to accept Jesus into our hearts and be granted eternal life. There are two types of lives, original/condemned life and eternal life. - DRS81

 

Yes DRS... 

[Openly Curious]

I do not believe that soul sleep is a sound biblical doctrine.  Jesus said this in....

 

John 12:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you,  Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

 

Jesus in the verse was speaking to his disciples concerning the fact that his time of death had come and after his death he would be glorified.  He likens his body to a kernel of wheat that when it is planted in the ground it dies and remains alone and unless it is planted in the ground it want come to life or resurrected bringing forth much more wheat than was planted.

 

When seeds are planted in the ground they are considered to be "sleeping seeds" until they germinate and begin to come alive.  Life already exists inside of a seed but if the seed is not planted or buried in the ground and die it will not germinate.  Until a seed planted in the ground germinates it is dying in the earth first.  The seed is lying dormant sleeping in the earth.  But though the body of a seed is dying and decaying the life of that particular seed that was planted is within itself just waiting to come out but the seed in order to bring forth more of it's kind has to die first.    Apostle Paul explained this process also to us in book of.....

 

1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 42-55  - But some man will say, How are the dead raised up?  (Ezekiel 37:3) and with what body do they come?  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

Paul says here what is sown doesn't come alive except it dies first and you will get more of the same kind of whatever it is you plant.  And that God had given to every kind of seed it's own unique body to live in.  We also have an earthly body in which we live inside of as God has given us a body in which we live inside of it.

 

..vs.42-55)  So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in corruption:   it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  It is sown a natural body: it is raised a spiritual body.  There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

 

Paul say it is just the same way for the saints in the resurrection like it was for the seeds that die and then came to life again bring forth more than was planted.  It tells us in  Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.  Scripture tells us that it is appointed (a set time) when everyone will have to and will die.  Apostle Paul said that after we die our body will be sown or buried in corruption (in death) but it will be raised (resurrected in glory).  This body that we live inside of is wasting away as we grow older and our bodies are subject to sicknesses and diseases that can take our life away but  eventually we will all one day face death.   Our bodies will be buried in weakness in the grave the ground but it will come alive again in power.  The bodies that we live inside of is a natural body right now while we are living and alive in this earth.  But after we die and our natural body is buried in the grave it will later be raised a spiritual body our bodies will not remain a natural body but our natural body will be changed to a spiritual body.  As Paul has told us that there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

 

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.  The first man is of the earth, earthy:  the second man is the Lord from heaven.  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:  and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 

 

Apostle Paul reminds us that the first man Adam was made a living soul.  Then he speaks of the last man Adam being made a quickening spirit.  He points out that the spiritual didn't come first but the natural came first and the spiritual came second.  Teaching that the natural body we have is earthy it is made from the dust of the earth (earthy) as God had breathed life into the body he created and formed out of the dust of the ground.   The second man Adam we are told is the Lord from heaven.  And all of us living in an earthy fleshly body will also live in a glorified body.  Just as we have been created and made in the image of God we bare God's image in our earthly bodies we live in.  We also one day will bear the image of our heavenly bodies when we receive them at the resurrection.  We will have a glorified body just as Jesus had when he rose from the grave.

 

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I show you a mystery;  We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory (Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 20:14; 21:4).  O death, where is thy sting?  O grave, (hell) where is thy victory (Hosea 13:14) 

 

Paul informs the saints that our fleshly earthly bodies that are only flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.  Because they will like the seed in the ground begin to decay and rot and turn once again into dust of the earth.  He tells us that he is showing (revealing making known to us a mystery).  In how that our bodies that have been buried in the ground will not always lye dormant in that state but we will be reunited with our bodies but our earthly body will be changed to a spiritual body and we will live forever in a glorified body.   Paul says that our corruptible body through death will decay and return to dust and our fleshly earthly bodies as we know them know will not inherit the kingdom of God.  But instead we will put on (live in) a body that will be incorruptible a body that will never see death or be destroyed.  And when we get our incorruptible bodies then the prophecy will be fullfilled how that death has been swallowed up in victory as the death of our earthly body will never have the victory over us as we will be changed in the moment of  a twinkling of an eye  

 

Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto the dust shalt thou return.

 

It is told to us that man will return to the ground from which his body was made from for dust thou art and unto dust we will return to when we give up the ghost (our spirit).

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that whilst we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord: (for we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.  Wherefore we labour, that whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

 

As saints of God we too have the confidence and know that while we are still living inside of our earthly body that our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as of yet.  But we live by the faith that we will one day die and our spirit (or our ghost) will leave this earthly body behind in the grave and our spirits will be in the presence of the Lord until the resurrection of the dead when we will receive a spiritual body to live in throughout all of eternity.  A glorified body in which death and sin have no hold on ever again.  A body that will not be affected with pain, sorrow,  heartache, sickness, death or any kinds of woe's.  We have this confidence as believers whether we are still living or if in death we are absent from our bodies.

 

It is our bodies that are planted in the ground in the grave that sleep's and returns to dust.  Like the kernel of wheat Jesus spoke about and like the seed apostle Paul spoke of that had to fall to the ground and die before it came to life again.  Our bodies sleep in the ground as seeds sleeps (die in the earth) before they come to live and bring forth their fruit.

[Butch5]

I do not believe that soul sleep is a sound biblical doctrine.  Jesus said this in....

 

John 12:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you,  Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

 

Jesus in the verse was speaking to his disciples concerning the fact that his time of death had come and after his death he would be glorified.  He likens his body to a kernel of wheat that when it is planted in the ground it dies and remains alone and unless it is planted in the ground it want come to life or resurrected bringing forth much more wheat than was planted.

 

When seeds are planted in the ground they are considered to be "sleeping seeds" until they germinate and begin to come alive.  Life already exists inside of a seed but if the seed is not planted or buried in the ground and die it will not germinate.  Until a seed planted in the ground germinates it is dying in the earth first.  The seed is lying dormant sleeping in the earth.  But though the body of a seed is dying and decaying the life of that particular seed that was planted is within itself just waiting to come out but the seed in order to bring forth more of it's kind has to die first.    Apostle Paul explained this process also to us in book of.....

 

1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 42-55  - But some man will say, How are the dead raised up?  (Ezekiel 37:3) and with what body do they come?  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

Paul says here what is sown doesn't come alive except it dies first and you will get more of the same kind of whatever it is you plant.  And that God had given to every kind of seed it's own unique body to live in.  We also have an earthly body in which we live inside of as God has given us a body in which we live inside of it.

 

..vs.42-55)  So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in corruption:   it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  It is sown a natural body: it is raised a spiritual body.  There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

 

Paul say it is just the same way for the saints in the resurrection like it was for the seeds that die and then came to life again bring forth more than was planted.  It tells us in  Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.  Scripture tells us that it is appointed (a set time) when everyone will have to and will die.  Apostle Paul said that after we die our body will be sown or buried in corruption (in death) but it will be raised (resurrected in glory).  This body that we live inside of is wasting away as we grow older and our bodies are subject to sicknesses and diseases that can take our life away but  eventually we will all one day face death.   Our bodies will be buried in weakness in the grave the ground but it will come alive again in power.  The bodies that we live inside of is a natural body right now while we are living and alive in this earth.  But after we die and our natural body is buried in the grave it will later be raised a spiritual body our bodies will not remain a natural body but our natural body will be changed to a spiritual body.  As Paul has told us that there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

 

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.  The first man is of the earth, earthy:  the second man is the Lord from heaven.  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:  and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 

 

Apostle Paul reminds us that the first man Adam was made a living soul.  Then he speaks of the last man Adam being made a quickening spirit.  He points out that the spiritual didn't come first but the natural came first and the spiritual came second.  Teaching that the natural body we have is earthy it is made from the dust of the earth (earthy) as God had breathed life into the body he created and formed out of the dust of the ground.   The second man Adam we are told is the Lord from heaven.  And all of us living in an earthy fleshly body will also live in a glorified body.  Just as we have been created and made in the image of God we bare God's image in our earthly bodies we live in.  We also one day will bear the image of our heavenly bodies when we receive them at the resurrection.  We will have a glorified body just as Jesus had when he rose from the grave.

 

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I show you a mystery;  We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory (Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 20:14; 21:4).  O death, where is thy sting?  O grave, (hell) where is thy victory (Hosea 13:14) 

 

Paul informs the saints that our fleshly earthly bodies that are only flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.  Because they will like the seed in the ground begin to decay and rot and turn once again into dust of the earth.  He tells us that he is showing (revealing making known to us a mystery).  In how that our bodies that have been buried in the ground will not always lye dormant in that state but we will be reunited with our bodies but our earthly body will be changed to a spiritual body and we will live forever in a glorified body.   Paul says that our corruptible body through death will decay and return to dust and our fleshly earthly bodies as we know them know will not inherit the kingdom of God.  But instead we will put on (live in) a body that will be incorruptible a body that will never see death or be destroyed.  And when we get our incorruptible bodies then the prophecy will be fullfilled how that death has been swallowed up in victory as the death of our earthly body will never have the victory over us as we will be changed in the moment of  a twinkling of an eye  

 

Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto the dust shalt thou return.

 

It is told to us that man will return to the ground from which his body was made from for dust thou art and unto dust we will return to when we give up the ghost (our spirit).

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that whilst we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord: (for we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.  Wherefore we labour, that whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

 

As saints of God we too have the confidence and know that while we are still living inside of our earthly body that our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as of yet.  But we live by the faith that we will one day die and our spirit (or our ghost) will leave this earthly body behind in the grave and our spirits will be in the presence of the Lord until the resurrection of the dead when we will receive a spiritual body to live in throughout all of eternity.  A glorified body in which death and sin have no hold on ever again.  A body that will not be affected with pain, sorrow,  heartache, sickness, death or any kinds of woe's.  We have this confidence as believers whether we are still living or if in death we are absent from our bodies.

 

It is our bodies that are planted in the ground in the grave that sleep's and returns to dust.  Like the kernel of wheat Jesus spoke about and like the seed apostle Paul spoke of that had to fall to the ground and die before it came to life again.  Our bodies sleep in the ground as seeds sleeps (die in the earth) before they come to live and bring forth their fruit.

I don't agree with way you worded 'bodies we live in'. This suggests to me that it is not necessary to have a body to live. This idea is nowhere taught in Scripture. Can you show any place in the Bible that teahes there is something in man that lives on after his body dies? When you talk about "our spirit" what exactly do you mean, can you explain further what this spirit is?

[Butch5]

According to the scripture there is a "distinction" between the body, the soul and the spirit.  Man is a three part being made up of a body, a soul and a spirit. 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray your "whole" spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord. 

 

So there is a distinction between the body and spirit in the scriptures as this verse shows.  

Actually, the Scriptures teach that man is a two part being. The body and spirit (breath of life) together became a living soul.  1+1=2.

[Butch5]

 

 

But you're not understanding something, you're leaving something out and that's salvation. When God gives us eternal life, the only way to be granted that gift is repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus into your heart while still alive on this old earth. Do you understand what I mean by that? Man cannot become immortal on his own, he cannot become immortal by nature. The day when a nonbeliever becomes a believer through salvation in Jesus Christ is when he is now immortal. It's only through Jesus Christ that we become immortal. One day we will all die and have a funeral and be buried in our graves, but scripture tells us that our soul lives on awaiting our bodily resurrection.

 

I understand it just fine. I’m also not leaving anything out.  You don’t believe that man is in and of himself immortal so where half way there. However, man doesn’t become immortal the moment he believes in Christ. Believers die therefore, they are not immortal. I can see here that you’re basing your argument on the idea that there is something in man that lives on after the body dies. That simply is not the case. I’d like to you to make this case from the Scriptures. Can you show anywhere in Scriptures a place that teaches that there is something in a man that lives on after death? Please do this using an inductive argument.

 

On another note, it’s not “accepting Jesus into your heart” that brings salvation. It’s believing that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God that leads to salvation.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

(Joh 20:30-31 KJV)

 

 

You are taking the word immortality out of context. Yes believers and unbelievers will all die one day, but the believer IS IN FACT immortal. His soul will live on in heaven. The believer was granted eternal life/immortality because he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart while still alive on this old earth. Immortality and physically dying and having a funeral cannot be compared. Immortality explains the condition of the believer's soul while being alive on this old earth, because he accepted Jesus into his heart. Dying and having a funeral is just the natural process of life. Living and dying is the natural process because we live in a fallen world, but the believers soul never dies. This is called the afterlife, immortality of the believer continues on and ventures into the afterlife.

 

You won’t find this idea taught in Scripture. The idea that there is a soul that lives on after death comes from Plato and Greek Philosophy, not Scripture. We’ve already seen that a soul requires a body to exist. The breath of life without a body is not a soul. Here are few other passages that use the word soul.

 

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Gen 1:21 KJV)

 

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. (Gen 1:30 KJV)

 

4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:4 KJV)

 

The word “Life” in this passage is “Nephesh” which is translated soul. From this we can see that the “soul” is in the blood. Blood refers to a physical body not something immaterial that exists apart from the body.

 

5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. (Gen 9:5 KJV)

 

Here it’s, your blood of your souls, so a soul has blood. It is a body that has blood not something immaterial apart from the body.

 

15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. (Gen 9:15 KJV)

 

A soul has flesh.

 

13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee. (Gen 12:13 KJV)

5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. (Exo 1:5 KJV)

 

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Lev 4:2 KJV)

 

Souls can sin.

 

6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day: (Num 9:6 KJV)

 

Here a soul can be dead.

 

6 No man shall take the nether or the upper millstone to pledge: for he taketh a man's life to pledge. (Deu 24:6 KJV)

 

37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. (Jos 10:37 KJV)

 

Here souls can be killed with a sword.

 

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? (Mat 6:25 KJV)

 

Here souls eat and drink.

 

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. (Mar 8:35 KJV)

 

Here a person can lose his soul.

 

9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? (Luk 6:9 KJV)

 

Here souls can be destroyed.

 

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (Joh 10:11 KJV)

 

Jesus laid down His soul for the sheep. Was He some kind of immaterial being that went to the cross or was it a physical body that lost its life on the cross?

 

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Act 2:27 KJV)

Here we see Jesus’ soul was in the grave. That’s where the body goes.

 

There are many, many, more passages that could be quoted but we see consistently though the Bible, both Old and New Testament,s that a soul is a being that has a body. It is not an immaterial existence outside of the body. It is not always a human body, fish are souls, whales are souls, all creature are souls.

 

 

Life inside a nonbeliever and life inside a believer cannot be compared. Life inside a nonbeliever is not life because he is already condemned to hell. Yes he was born with life in his mothers womb, but everyone is condemned to hell when born into this world. The only way to change that is through Jesus Christ, because Jesus is that bridge that we all need that connects us back to the Father. Life inside a believer however is eternal life through Jesus Christ. He became a believer because he accepted Jesus into his heart while still alive on this old earth. If a nonbeliever thinks he is immortal then he is believing a lie. The Bible DOES teach the spirit and soul of the believer is immortal and goes to heaven, but you had turned down the scriptures that I gave you, and so be it.

 

The life in the believer and the life in the unbeliever can be compared because they are the same thing, life. There is only one kind of life. You’ve not proven the existence of any kind of life after the body dies, you’ve simply assumed it. The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is that when resurrected the believer will continue to be given life by God, the unbeliever will not. That is what eternal life is. However, no one lives forever yet so they are not immortal.

 

The passages you posted say nothing about a person living now being immortal. As I pointed out most spoke of the resurrection. If you can show me somewhere the teaches (inductively) that there is a spirit and soul that lives while the body is dead I’d be happy to look at it. However, inferring it from certain passages of Scripture is not proof it’s simply an inference. And inference can be wrong.

 

 

Man consists of a body, soul and spirit. The reason we have a soul and spirit is BECAUSE GOD BREATHED IT INTO US. God's breath/spirit IS your soul THAT RETURNS TO HIM. Now whether your spirit and soul is in fact saved or not well, that's a different story. Just because God breathed life into man doesn't mean that man is saved yet (Gen 2:7). God gave us original life so we can make a decision in our original life to accept Jesus into our hearts and be granted eternal life. There are two types of lives, original/condemned life and eternal life. - DRS81

No, God’s spirit/breath is not your soul. It is one of two things that make up a soul. That is clearly stated in Genesis and shown in the passages I posted above. There are not two kinds of life there is one, it is life one is either alive or dead. Eternal life is simple being given life by God after the resurrection.

 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Butch5

[Openly Curious]

 

I do not believe that soul sleep is a sound biblical doctrine.  Jesus said this in....

 

John 12:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you,  Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

 

Jesus in the verse was speaking to his disciples concerning the fact that his time of death had come and after his death he would be glorified.  He likens his body to a kernel of wheat that when it is planted in the ground it dies and remains alone and unless it is planted in the ground it want come to life or resurrected bringing forth much more wheat than was planted.

 

When seeds are planted in the ground they are considered to be "sleeping seeds" until they germinate and begin to come alive.  Life already exists inside of a seed but if the seed is not planted or buried in the ground and die it will not germinate.  Until a seed planted in the ground germinates it is dying in the earth first.  The seed is lying dormant sleeping in the earth.  But though the body of a seed is dying and decaying the life of that particular seed that was planted is within itself just waiting to come out but the seed in order to bring forth more of it's kind has to die first.    Apostle Paul explained this process also to us in book of.....

 

1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 42-55  - But some man will say, How are the dead raised up?  (Ezekiel 37:3) and with what body do they come?  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

Paul says here what is sown doesn't come alive except it dies first and you will get more of the same kind of whatever it is you plant.  And that God had given to every kind of seed it's own unique body to live in.  We also have an earthly body in which we live inside of as God has given us a body in which we live inside of it.

 

..vs.42-55)  So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in corruption:   it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  It is sown a natural body: it is raised a spiritual body.  There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

 

Paul say it is just the same way for the saints in the resurrection like it was for the seeds that die and then came to life again bring forth more than was planted.  It tells us in  Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.  Scripture tells us that it is appointed (a set time) when everyone will have to and will die.  Apostle Paul said that after we die our body will be sown or buried in corruption (in death) but it will be raised (resurrected in glory).  This body that we live inside of is wasting away as we grow older and our bodies are subject to sicknesses and diseases that can take our life away but  eventually we will all one day face death.   Our bodies will be buried in weakness in the grave the ground but it will come alive again in power.  The bodies that we live inside of is a natural body right now while we are living and alive in this earth.  But after we die and our natural body is buried in the grave it will later be raised a spiritual body our bodies will not remain a natural body but our natural body will be changed to a spiritual body.  As Paul has told us that there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

 

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.  The first man is of the earth, earthy:  the second man is the Lord from heaven.  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:  and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 

 

Apostle Paul reminds us that the first man Adam was made a living soul.  Then he speaks of the last man Adam being made a quickening spirit.  He points out that the spiritual didn't come first but the natural came first and the spiritual came second.  Teaching that the natural body we have is earthy it is made from the dust of the earth (earthy) as God had breathed life into the body he created and formed out of the dust of the ground.   The second man Adam we are told is the Lord from heaven.  And all of us living in an earthy fleshly body will also live in a glorified body.  Just as we have been created and made in the image of God we bare God's image in our earthly bodies we live in.  We also one day will bear the image of our heavenly bodies when we receive them at the resurrection.  We will have a glorified body just as Jesus had when he rose from the grave.

 

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I show you a mystery;  We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory (Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 20:14; 21:4).  O death, where is thy sting?  O grave, (hell) where is thy victory (Hosea 13:14) 

 

Paul informs the saints that our fleshly earthly bodies that are only flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.  Because they will like the seed in the ground begin to decay and rot and turn once again into dust of the earth.  He tells us that he is showing (revealing making known to us a mystery).  In how that our bodies that have been buried in the ground will not always lye dormant in that state but we will be reunited with our bodies but our earthly body will be changed to a spiritual body and we will live forever in a glorified body.   Paul says that our corruptible body through death will decay and return to dust and our fleshly earthly bodies as we know them know will not inherit the kingdom of God.  But instead we will put on (live in) a body that will be incorruptible a body that will never see death or be destroyed.  And when we get our incorruptible bodies then the prophecy will be fullfilled how that death has been swallowed up in victory as the death of our earthly body will never have the victory over us as we will be changed in the moment of  a twinkling of an eye  

 

Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto the dust shalt thou return.

 

It is told to us that man will return to the ground from which his body was made from for dust thou art and unto dust we will return to when we give up the ghost (our spirit).

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that whilst we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord: (for we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.  Wherefore we labour, that whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

 

As saints of God we too have the confidence and know that while we are still living inside of our earthly body that our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as of yet.  But we live by the faith that we will one day die and our spirit (or our ghost) will leave this earthly body behind in the grave and our spirits will be in the presence of the Lord until the resurrection of the dead when we will receive a spiritual body to live in throughout all of eternity.  A glorified body in which death and sin have no hold on ever again.  A body that will not be affected with pain, sorrow,  heartache, sickness, death or any kinds of woe's.  We have this confidence as believers whether we are still living or if in death we are absent from our bodies.

 

It is our bodies that are planted in the ground in the grave that sleep's and returns to dust.  Like the kernel of wheat Jesus spoke about and like the seed apostle Paul spoke of that had to fall to the ground and die before it came to life again.  Our bodies sleep in the ground as seeds sleeps (die in the earth) before they come to live and bring forth their fruit.

I don't agree with way you worded 'bodies we live in'. This suggests to me that it is not necessary to have a body to live. This idea is nowhere taught in Scripture. Can you show any place in the Bible that teahes there is something in man that lives on after his body dies? When you talk about "our spirit" what exactly do you mean, can you explain further what this spirit is?

 

 

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

This scripture shows that Jeremiah was already with the Lord before God even formed his body in his mother's womb.  Also before Jeremiah was even born into this world God had set him apart to be a prophet.   The calling of God was upon Jeremiah before he was born.  We exist in spirit with God before we are even created within an earthly body.  We not only exist in spirit but we are with God and are known by God all before we are formed in our mother's womb.

 

Psalms 139:13-18 - For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.  I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:  marvelous are thy works: and that my soul knoweth right well.  My "substance" was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.  Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all "my members" were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.  How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God!  how great is the sum of them!  If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

 

 King David said that his substance (strength and body) wasn't hid from God when his body was being formed in secret (mother's womb) in the earth.  He further states that God's eyes did see his body (substance) when he was still unperfect (before he was formed).  Also that in God's record book that there was a record of all the member parts of his body in which God fashioned and made for him "before"  he even existed in his body or before his body was even created.  King David as Jeremiah the prophet shows that we do exist in spirit with God and God knows us personally before he created a earthly body for us to live in while we were still inside of our mother's womb.

 

I already mentioned in my post above a few of the scripture in this passage here.....

 

2 Corinthians 1-10 - FOR WE know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our bodies or body) were dissolved (dies) we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house (glorified bodies)which is from heaven:  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked (without a body at his coming).  For we that are in this tabernacle (earthly bodies) do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed (without a body because of death) but clothed upon (with our glorified bodies), that mortality (death) might be swallowed up of life.  Now he that hath wrought us (created us) for this selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit (Isaiah 29:23; Ephesians 2:10; Romans 8:23; Ephesians 1:14).  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, (still alive living in our earthly bodies) we are absent from the Lord.  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:),  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.  Wherefore we labour that whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. (Paul says he is willing and would rather be absent or out of his earthly body with all it's suffering and be present or in the prescence of the Lord).  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.  (We will all stand before God and give account of the life we lived in our earthly bodies). 

 

 

[Openly Curious]

 

According to the scripture there is a "distinction" between the body, the soul and the spirit.  Man is a three part being made up of a body, a soul and a spirit. 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray your "whole" spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord. 

 

So there is a distinction between the body and spirit in the scriptures as this verse shows.  

Actually, the Scriptures teach that man is a two part being. The body and spirit (breath of life) together became a living soul.  1+1=2.

 

 

Where are the Scriptures that teach that man is a two part being I would be interested in seeing them?  The scripture I posted above shows very clearly that man has a spirit, a soul and a body even though you might not want to accept the scripture.