Deception in nonbelievers / Power in believers

[Sevenseas]

 

Everything should be tempered with the fruit of the spirit which is different than a 'gift'

 

What is the difference.

 

How do you obtain a gift...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_gifts_of_the_Holy_Spirit

 

Are these gifts even biblical?..I always question these things if they're from the catholic church.

 

 

 

Uh...your premise is wrong. 

 

Are you interested in power or in becoming more like Jesus?  The fruit of the Holy Spirit:

 

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever^c you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

Power without fruit equals abuse...every single time.

 

Why would you suppose the gifts are not Biblical when they are listed throughout the NT?

 

 

It is far more difficult to be loving, patient, kind etc, then it is to tell everyone you have power because people are easily manipulated because they do not heed the warnings from Jesus and the

writers of the NT

[Guest DRS81]

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.

Why would you suppose the gifts are not Biblical when they are listed throughout the NT?

 

These are not the gifts, these are the fruits. Where in scripture does it list the gifts...

wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord (wonder and awe).

[Sevenseas]

 

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.

Why would you suppose the gifts are not Biblical when they are listed throughout the NT?

 

These are not the gifts, these are the fruits. Where in scripture does it list the gifts...

wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord (wonder and awe).

 

 

 

uhhh.....as I noted and quoted, that is correct....glad y'all got that

 

Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,^a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.^b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Unity and Diversity in the Body

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by^c one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues^d ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

 

Paul states this in 1Cor: 13  :If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

My comment, which I think is long forgotten, is that the gifts need to be tempered with the fruit of the Holy Spirit

 

To better answer yr op:  I would much rather fellowship with a fellow believer who exhibits fruit than power.  Power without love and kindness etc is bad. In fact, it corrupts which can be seen even in a worldly sense

 

I'm not sure why youl think that the gifts are of Catholic origin...I am also not sure you are understanding the point I am making...perhaps if you take a look at the scriptures I provided concerning what I am posting about, it may become clearer

[Willa]

 

These are not the gifts, these are the fruits. Where in scripture does it list the gifts...

wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord (wonder and awe).

Even the domons believe intellectually, but they do not trust in and rely on Jesus, which is the Christians' definitionn of believe. And she made satan her lord, not Jesus. So she was never truly saved.

You are possibly thinking of Isaiah 11:2 v1 There shall come a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of His roots.

The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. NKJV

These are known as the 7 fold Spirit of God, since they reveal the attributes of the Holy Spirit and prophecy that He shall rest on Jesus.

The "people gifts" such as pastors, teacher, evangelists are listed several places. The "power" gifts are listed in 1 Corinth. 12:4-11.

These are the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to believers to empower us to witness and do the work of the church. They are useless without love (Cor.13). Among those listed are "discernment of spirits". God has given me this awareness a few times; I believe it was to warn me of dangerous people. But by it I suddenly became aware of body language, expressions on the face, and especially the eyes. (Believers usually look into peoples eyes with kindness in their relaxed faces. There are a lot of people who won't look others in the eye due to shame or fear, or they will look away. Christians usually return the kind look with a smile. But I have also seen con men look directly into your eyes with wide unblinking eyes and a frozen smile and a nod to bait you and lead you on. And I have seen evil people gaze at me with piercing eyes, their faces stoney, grim, twisted and agressive. Then there are those who are on drugs, and they may include the latter or they may be in la la land or a stupor.) I never saw gargoyles or anything wierd like some people claim, so maybe it was not a gift. But it is how God has helped to guide and protect me.

So with me it has been a sudden hyper awareness like being on alert. Some people grew up in ungodly families where they had to read the body language and expressions of others to survive. I didn't and pretty much took people at their word. For that reason I had asked God to give me the gift of wisdom, not realizing that I meant discernment. But He was gracious to also give me wisdom both in how to answer people and in how to procede in decision making in church situations. Anyone can pray for wisdom, but for me it came by inspiriation immediately. Only once was I given a word of knowledge as to identify an evil spirit, and that was in a shamen.

I hope this helps. Perhaps it is more than you wanted to know.

[Guest DRS81]

 

To better answer yr op:  I would much rather fellowship with a fellow believer who exhibits fruit than power.  Power without love and kindness etc is bad. In fact, it corrupts which can be seen even in a worldly sense

 

I agree.

[desi2007]

As believers we sin every day ...in ways we don't always observe, sin with jealousy, condemning others, deceitfulness, lies, list goes on, but we repent and ask the Lord to forgive us. When we struggle we should pray for wisdom, for every problem we face is a need for wisdom. Knowing what to say, knowing what to do.

 

As for non believers...they just sin and are clueless with the Word, they are wrapped up in the world.

[Sevenseas]

 

 

To better answer yr op:  I would much rather fellowship with a fellow believer who exhibits fruit than power.  Power without love and kindness etc is bad. In fact, it corrupts which can be seen even in a worldly sense

 

I agree.

 

 

That's really good!  Thank you  

[John SOG]

The problem with being deceived is that we don't know we are deceived until Father opens our eyes to a subject.  For example most Christians would swear they were right on keeping Sunday even though God's word plainly and consistently says to keep the Sabbath.  Man changed what God said and we don't know we have been deceived. 

[John SOG]

even Satan believes.

[John SOG]

And even confessing with the mouth is not the end of it we must make him Lord of our life by doing what he says.