Irreducible Complexity

[gray wolf]

No I think it would be more stating in a premise as a fact differently than the same thing in the conclusion. But no matter. What you are proposing is unfalsifiable, so I'm going to bow out.

[Enoch2021]

No I think it would be more stating in a premise as a fact differently than the same thing in the conclusion. But no matter. What you are proposing is unfalsifiable, so I'm going to bow out.

 

'What you are proposing is unfalsifiable, so I'm going to bow out."

 

I'm proposing that the Speed Of Light was INSTANTANEOUS, according to GOD (THE WORD), on DAY 4.  Is it Unfalsifiable?  Of Course, unless you get a Time Machine and head on back there.

 

You're claiming:  the Speed of Light was the same for Creation Week as it is now.  Is that Unfalsifiable? Of Course, unless you get a Time Machine and head on back there.

 

Is there a difference??

 

Is there anything that tells us that the Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Biochemistry et al were different then (Creation Week) than they are now, for Precedence? YEP, The whole 1st Chapter of Genesis.

 

I'll take GOD'S WORD for it.

[gray wolf]

Unfalsifiable but improbable? To fit the chronology as you read it. Is there an alternate view Biblically? I think so. After creating the sun and the moon, the Bible says He made the stars also. And when was that? In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Is it not possible according to the text that is when they were made? Before the 6 days. No time constraints yet. To me it seems more likely than the supernatural alteration of physical laws.

But then, I may be wrong.

[Enoch2021]

Unfalsifiable but improbable? To fit the chronology as you read it. Is there an alternate view Biblically? I think so. After creating the sun and the moon, the Bible says He made the stars also. And when was that? In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Is it not possible according to the text that is when they were made? Before the 6 days. No time constraints yet. To me it seems more likely than the supernatural alteration of physical laws.

But then, I may be wrong.

 

"Unfalsifiable but improbable?"

 

For what?  And please show "The Math" showing the Improbability.

 

"After creating the sun and the moon, the Bible says He made the stars also."

 

Yes HE did.....on the Same Day,  Day 4:

 

(Genesis 1:14-19) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  {15} And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  {16} And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  {17} And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,  {18} And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.  {19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

 

 

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Is it not possible according to the text that is when they were made?"

 

According to the text (See: above) He made the greater and lesser light, and the stars clearly on Day 4.  As for Genesis 1:1, it's clearly an Introductory Statement (WHO and WHAT) with the rest of the 1st Chapter as to (How/When/Why).

 

 

"more likely than the supernatural alteration of physical laws."

 

Wasn't there CLEARLY Alteration to the "Physical Laws" as we know them today....in the First Chapter of Genesis?

[gray wolf]

I dunno about the math. How do you calculate the probability that a physical constant changes? Nowadays it's pretty much zero. I would venture that you'd need a case study to set up a calculation.

It is rather an exercise in faith, which is the core of creationism. This is not a surprise, but it is as it should be and makes it distinctive.

[Enoch2021]

I dunno about the math. How do you calculate the probability that a physical constant changes? Nowadays it's pretty much zero. I would venture that you'd need a case study to set up a calculation.

It is rather an exercise in faith, which is the core of creationism. This is not a surprise, but it makes it distinctive.

 

"I dunno about the math. How do you calculate the probability that a physical constant changes?"

 

I don't know....you made the statement.  I can tell you for 100% CERTAINTY that they changed from Creation Week!!  Unless.... (and there are quite a number of examples in the First Chapter of Genesis, I'll pick one which was explained in Genesis 2:7), you can show me a MAN be created from dust and then become ALIVE??  Whereby breaking the LAWS OF PHYSICS/CHEMISTRY/BIOCHEMISTRY and a slew of others I imagine.

 

 

"Nowadays it's pretty much zero."

 

I agree,  BUT...we're talking about Creation Week so it's moot.

[gray wolf]

Things at the beginning fly in the face of present knowledge, even in the secular cosmology view of the Big Bang.  The universe prior to that event was vastly different, unimaginable.  I don't see why God could not do amazing things as well at the world's inception.  But this again is a matter of faith.

[other one]

What forces in higher dimensions might affect forces in our dimension that might give us false ideas of how it all works?

[Enoch2021]

Things at the beginning fly in the face of present knowledge, even in the secular cosmology view of the Big Bang.  The universe prior to that event was vastly different, unimaginable.  I don't see why God could not do amazing things as well at the world's inception.  But this again is a matter of faith.

 

"Things at the beginning fly in the face of present knowledge"

 

That's my WHOLE point.

 

"even in the secular cosmology view of the Big Bang."

 

That thing has more holes in it than a Spaghetti Strainer

 

 

"The universe prior to that event was vastly different, unimaginable"

 

The Universe prior to the Universe?  I'd probably have to agree.......I think, let me ponder that

 

 

"I don't see why God could not do amazing things as well at the world's inception."

 

Didn't HE?

[gray wolf]

I'd say so, but that is my faith.  When asked by a colleague or atheist to prove these things, I cannot point to scientific evidence.  If it is possible at all, I certainly don't have the background or knowledge.  I'd fall into an argument from ignorance pretty quickly.