To cover or not to cover ?

[other one]

 

 

 

 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

There are several views  on the text, 

 

(1) This text has no applicability to us today. Paul is speaking about a ‘tradition’ that he has handed on. Hence, since this is not the tradition of the modern church, we hardly need to consider this text.

 

(2) The head covering is the hair. Hence, the applicability today is that women should wear (relatively) long hair.

 

(3) The head covering is a real head covering and the text is applicable today, in the same way as it was in Paul’s day. 

 

But which is it really there is only one answer and how do we know which one ?

 

 

I would say whatever the Holy Spirit convicts one of....  that's the way we should go....

 

Alot of people say the Holy Spirit convict them to this and that but there is only one Holy Spirit that leads into the truth alone 

 

does the spirit lead everyone to the same place?

[Guest Butero]

 

I don't know any women with short frizzy hair, but if I did, I would suggest they wear a veil or a wig or never cut their short frizzy hair and let it grow as long as possible. That is what I would do if I was a woman with short frizzy hair.

Buteuro,

I have to tell you this - I laughed so hard when I re- read this last night that it got me out of my low flat feeling yesterday

I had the strangest mind picture Lol!!

God IS good!

 

I am glad I could brighten your day.  I hope you are still feeling better.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

There are several views  on the text, 

 

(1) This text has no applicability to us today. Paul is speaking about a ‘tradition’ that he has handed on. Hence, since this is not the tradition of the modern church, we hardly need to consider this text.

 

(2) The head covering is the hair. Hence, the applicability today is that women should wear (relatively) long hair.

 

(3) The head covering is a real head covering and the text is applicable today, in the same way as it was in Paul’s day. 

 

But which is it really there is only one answer and how do we know which one ?

 

 

I would say whatever the Holy Spirit convicts one of....  that's the way we should go....

 

Alot of people say the Holy Spirit convict them to this and that but there is only one Holy Spirit that leads into the truth alone 

 

does the spirit lead everyone to the same place?

 

He leads us into all truth.  There can be only one correct answer to a right or wrong question. 

[firestormx]

Butero,

 

You didn't answer the question.

 

Can a women who is a cancer patient with no or short hair be fully submitted to God?

 

I say yes. That's the heart of what Paul is talking about, submission. Hair or no hair it will all burn up as will everything of the flesh, but remaining fully submitted to God or Not, now that is forever, that matters. Because if you are not submitted to God you are in rebellion to God. So, one more time.

 

Can a women who is a cancer patient with no or short hair be fully submitted to God?

[Guest Butero]

Butero,

 

You didn't answer the question.

 

Can a women who is a cancer patient with no or short hair be fully submitted to God?

 

I say yes. That's the heart of what Paul is talking about, submission. Hair or no hair it will all burn up as will everything of the flesh, but remaining fully submitted to God or Not, now that is forever, that matters. Because if you are not submitted to God you are in rebellion to God. So, one more time.

 

Can a women who is a cancer patient with no or short hair be fully submitted to God?

Yes.  They can wear a wig or head covering.  The Bible clearly states this is not a salvation issue, so in this case you are wrong when you try to make a sin issue out of it.  Men and women are free to be contentious.  My question is why they would want to be?  It is like the question of whether or not you want to be insignificant in God's Kingdom or great?  Sure, I would be thankful just to get in, but why settle when you don't have to?  Notice what Jesus said. 

 

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:  but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 

 

As such, I am concerned with the minors as well as the majors.  If others are not, that is their business. 

[firestormx]

Butero,

 

First, I don't seem to be able to use the quote button, so sorry.

 

You can't have it both ways. Either they have to follow it or they don't. If they don't follow it and submit this way then they are in rebellion. Submit and follow to the letter or you are in rebellion. That leads to of course how long is long hair. We would have to have this done to the millimeter otherwise we are disobeying and in rebellion. The bible is clear no person in rebellion can go to heaven. If someone in rebellion can go to heaven I would love for you to show me. Ignorance of the word is not an excuse the bible is clear about that as well ( OT ). You either submit or are in rebellion. The word is clear it is one or the other, but never both...... Hey.....wait a second.....I just had a thought.....

 

You know this starting to sound more and more like following the law instead of grace. Maybe, just maybe this is just about submission to God from the heart. The holy Spirit leads us all into the truth, and only Jesus is truth. But He doesn't hit us all with everything at once, but rather one step at a time leads us gently to a closer walk with him, becoming more and more like him everyday. Where as one may be further down that road than another, well....who is to say, for it is God that sees the heart. The heart where submission must begin. So, I am sorry but I must go back to my first post, Following the word starts in the heart. The Lord through the Holy Spirit guides each and everyone of us. Where the phrases were more concerned about following the list of do's and don'ts, Jesus made clear it starts with the heart. To follow a list blindly serves no purpose if it isn't in the heart. It is a about submission in the heart first. May each follow as the Holy Spirit guides us to him.

 

Firestormx

[Guest Butero]

Butero,

 

First, I don't seem to be able to use the quote button, so sorry.

 

You can't have it both ways. Either they have to follow it or they don't. If they don't follow it and submit this way then they are in rebellion. Submit and follow to the letter or you are in rebellion. That leads to of course how long is long hair. We would have to have this done to the millimeter otherwise we are disobeying and in rebellion. The bible is clear no person in rebellion can go to heaven. If someone in rebellion can go to heaven I would love for you to show me. Ignorance of the word is not an excuse the bible is clear about that as well ( OT ). You either submit or are in rebellion. The word is clear it is one or the other, but never both...... Hey.....wait a second.....I just had a thought.....

 

You know this starting to sound more and more like following the law instead of grace. Maybe, just maybe this is just about submission to God from the heart. The holy Spirit leads us all into the truth, and only Jesus is truth. But He doesn't hit us all with everything at once, but rather one step at a time leads us gently to a closer walk with him, becoming more and more like him everyday. Where as one may be further down that road than another, well....who is to say, for it is God that sees the heart. The heart where submission must begin. So, I am sorry but I must go back to my first post, Following the word starts in the heart. The Lord through the Holy Spirit guides each and everyone of us. Where the phrases were more concerned about following the list of do's and don'ts, Jesus made clear it starts with the heart. To follow a list blindly serves no purpose if it isn't in the heart. It is a about submission in the heart first. May each follow as the Holy Spirit guides us to him.

 

Firestormx

I don't believe like you do about grace.  I can already see that.  I don't believe that grace allows us to live anyway we want.  I believe we must have grace to make it to heaven because nobody can live 100 percent up to God's standard of holiness, but I also believe that true faith will lead to good works, and that grace without works is dead, as is taught in the book of James.  I believe Jesus when he said he didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill the law. 

 

In the case of hair as a covering, it is unique in that the Bible states that you can disobey this teaching and not be in sin.  Perhaps another way of saying this is to mention how there are sins unto death and sins that are not unto death.  That is also taught in the New Testament.  I believe we should strive to follow all Biblical teachings, including this one, but I don't believe you will wind up in hell for being contentious, in this one matter.  Now I find myself referencing verse 16. 

 

Is there anything that may happen because a person is contentious and refused to obey this scripture?  I don't believe it will cause the person to go to hell, but what exactly does it mean when it mentions the angels?  When a man or woman doesn't have the sign of authority on their head, does it put them in any kind of spiritual danger?  I am not sure, because people don't know for sure what that reference means.  I have my own thoughts on it, but even I am not 100 percent sure. 

[firestormx]

Butero,

 

Don't see it as me trying to be contentious. I don't mean to be. I got hurt and really confused by someone once, over the whole law vs. grace question. Jesus said if we love him we will obey him. I don't think he meant obey in a few things, and do what we want in the rest. But if we truly love him we will obey in all things. For all things are possible to those who believe, even obedience to God through Jesus Christ. But because of how I was hurt over the law. Because of how messed up I got over it, I am really hesitant to say this must be obeyed or else. Instead I would rather First, look at the heart of what is being taught, then the letter. Trusting God through the Holy Spirit in the Name Jesus Christ to lead me into all truth and obedience. For if I can trust Jesus to lead me to obedience in the heart of what is being taught then the letter, then I believe I can trust God to do the same for everyone else. It reminds me of how people say God is different in the old testament than the new. But if you look back at Genesis and the story of the Flood. It talks about when God is grieved that he made man, it is because of the HEART of man and what is in his HEART. Even then God looked at the Heart First. He doesn't change. Heart following Jesus first, then everything else will follow unto obedience of the word in Jesus Christ. It starts with the Heart.   

[other one]

Firestorm,  the two rows of buttons at the top of the reply frame has a toggle button.   It is the top left one.   click that and it should let you use the quote button.     all the others too.

[firestormx]

Firestorm,  the two rows of buttons at the top of the reply frame has a toggle button.   It is the top left one.   click that and it should let you use the quote button.     all the others too.

Thanks. Either it's been to long, or it's changed.