Russian stock market plunges

[MorningGlory]

As many American and Europeans economists have been saying, the Russian economy is fragile at best and the Ukrainian crisis is causing chaos in the markets there.  Putin is, effectively, wiping out Russia's recovery from the 2009 global recession.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-hikes-rates-amid-market-carnage-over-ukraine-100455087.html

 

 

[ncn]

The problem with assessing which side will ultimately prevail - Moscow or Brussels and Washington - is that they are playing different games.

Putin is winning at a cost he is willing to bear.

 

Russia still has considerable leverage over Europe in the energy sector.

Germany still gets a third of its gas from Russia.

There will be reluctance to mess with global markets.

 

I think the question that we need to ask is,,,, 

are the United States and Europe going to risk a fundamental break with Russia now over an uncertain outcome in Ukraine down the road?

[MorningGlory]

The problem with assessing which side will ultimately prevail - Moscow or Brussels and Washington - is that they are playing different games.

Putin is winning at a cost he is willing to bear.

 

Russia still has considerable leverage over Europe in the energy sector.

Germany still gets a third of its gas from Russia.

There will be reluctance to mess with global markets.

 

I think the question that we need to ask is,,,, 

are the United States and Europe going to risk a fundamental break with Russia now over an uncertain outcome in Ukraine down the road?

 

My guess would be 'no', ncn.  But the actions taken by Putin bring to mind the Soviet invasion of Poland in the 1950s (yeah, I know we weren't around then) and these things always hurt Russia in the end.  Interesting when I read that Eisenhower sternly lectured the Russians but took no other action because then, as now, the risk of touching off another world war was just too great.  No matter how long it takes, the Russian people will feel the brunt of this stupid move by their dictator.  Even more than they are this morning when they read the market report.

[OakWood]

For those who are not aware of what is going on, here is a quick overview of the situation:

 

It all started last year with a series of protests in Kiev (known as 'Euromaidan'). The protesters were demanding closer ties to the EU. The people in this part of the Ukraine are mainly pro-European and anti-Russian. They were also against the president Victor Yanukovych.

 

The people in Eastern and Southern Ukraine are mainly pro-Russian and supporters of Yanukovych.

 

In response to the protests the EU offered the Ukraine hundreds of millions in loans but  demanded changes to Ukrainian laws to make them more Euro-friendly. Russia’s response was to offer billions in loans and cheaper gas with no other demands. Since then loan payments have actually been transferred from Russia to the Ukraine which have caused further protests by the Euromaidan demonstrators.

On February 22^nd of this year the Ukrainian parliament voted unanimously to impeach Yanukovych who has since fled the country, his whereabouts unknown. An interim government has been set up with the intention of holding elections in May. Russia has refused to recognise the interim government, claiming that there was no legal reason to impeach Yanukovych. 

 

Counterprotests have also been started by pro-Russian demonstrators in East and South Ukraine.

On March 1^st Russian troops took control of Crimea which is a pro-Russian area.

 

You can fill in the rest of the details yourselves. There are plenty of news items on it but with different biases according to which you read.

[ncn]

This is just in. 

 

Russian military gives Ukraine forces in Crimea until 0300GMT to surrender or "face storm" 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738

[MorningGlory]

This is just in. 

 

Russian military gives Ukraine forces in Crimea until 0300GMT to surrender or "face storm" 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738

 

This is looking more dangerous by the hour.  And we could be looking at a CIVIL war.....in which case other countries can't do a whole lot.  Nor should they.

[nebula]

A civil war when a foreign nation has its troops in there forcing an outcome?

[ncn]

Gas and oil prices have risen amid fears the Ukraine crisis could have a damaging effect on one of Europe's main energy supply routes.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26418664

[other one]

 Well, I don't think I could advise anyone to trust Putin......    but maybe just maybe he is really trying to stop a serious civil war.

 

As for him being a dictator, he did receive instruction from his government to interfere militarily.  I'm not sure we really understand the deep feelings between the ethnic Russians in the east and the others.....     they don't even speak the same language....

 

I just hope we keep out of it all...   this is the kind of separations that global wars come out of when everyone starts choosing sides.

[EnochBethany]

 Well, I don't think I could advise anyone to trust Putin......    but maybe just maybe he is really trying to stop a serious civil war.

 

As for him being a dictator, he did receive instruction from his government to interfere militarily.  I'm not sure we really understand the deep feelings between the ethnic Russians in the east and the others.....     they don't even speak the same language....

 

I just hope we keep out of it all...   this is the kind of separations that global wars come out of when everyone starts choosing sides.

I note as to how it is reported that Putin put his plans to their legislature & got approval.  But what leads you to think that Putin got instruction from his govt?  I thought he was the instructor!

 

I had thought we should stay out so long as all Putin was doing was putting back the Pretzel on his throne.  I won't be surprised now if he virtually annexes Crimea & Eastern Ukraine.  His policy reminds a lot of Hitler's attempts to add territory to Germany based on a German population there.  But yes, I do think the USA has erred greatly by butting into other country's business. 

 

If there were not nukes involved, it is likely that there would be a war, as when Hitler invaded Poland, though there is no defense treaty here.