Devoted more to the Scriptures than to the God of the Scriptures?

[Guest Butero]

 

It is not an either or choice of "living off the knowledge of good and evil rather than off of life."

According to Genesis 3, eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil resulted in man being cast out of the Garden so that he would not be able to eat from the Tree of Life. It does sound like an either-or situation to me.

 

22 And the LORD God said , Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat , and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken . 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way , to keep the way of the tree of life.

The Bible states that God's people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge.

But which knowledge?

 

1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. 2 By swearing , and lying , and killing , and stealing , and committing adultery , they break out , and blood toucheth blood. 3 Therefore shall the land mourn , and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish , with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away . 4 Yet let no man strive , nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. 5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. (Hosea 4}

So please do not advocate "knowing good and evil" as being godly!

 

We need to know what God says in his Word.

I was never in denial of this, and I am sure if you had challenged the author of the OP, he would tell you likewise.

 

"So many people preferred to make obeying the Bible an end in and of itself without actually seeing it as a means to find God."

He is not saying, "Don't obey," but rather challenging why one obeys.

 

"I don’t see Jesus telling us to slack off in our scripture reading or to make up our own rules. Rather, he’s calling us to keep the purpose of Scripture in mind. Is our reading of Scripture leading us closer to love of God and love of neighbor? Is our reading of Scripture leading to spiritual restoration or exhaustion on the Sabbath?"

So please stop arguing a claim that was never made.

 

Jesus was asked what the great commandment was, and he narrowed it down to 2, because if you follow them, you will be following the entire law.  You won't sin against God or your neighbor.  He wasn't doing away with the other laws.  We are saved because we believe in Jesus, but we cannot continue to live in sin and remain saved.  There are lists in the Bible of specific sins that will guarantee we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  It is good to know what those things are.

Again, you are mis-reading what the author was saying.

What he is saying rather is more along the lines of:

Why do you bend over backwards trying to avoid sinning - is it to keep your salvation or is it out of love for God and love for others?

 

The commandment in Genesis was about eating of the fruit of that tree.  Once the knowledge of good and evil entered into the world, it was here.  Today, we can have the knowledge of good and evil and have life.  It is not one or the other.  Having the knowledge of good and evil doesn't make one Godly.  Having the knowledge and shunning evil does, assuming they have also been washed in the blood of Jesus. 

 

The Bible says in Ecclesiastes that the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.  If our reason for obeying is fear of hell, that is a good reason. 

[Guest Butero]

Thank-you, Kwik!

 

Your words have a way of bringing healing!

 

 

 

Blessings Everyone...

     Thanks neb,the OP is an interesting take this Micha Barnett(was that her name)has on the Jews rejecting Christ.....bottom line.I disagree with her interpretation that the Jews living under the law were more focused on reading the Sciptures than seeking God.......I do not think that reading the Scriptures could ever lead anyone away from God but having a hardened heart can & not "receiving" Gods Word through the study of Scripture...it was not that the Pharisees,religious experts & teachers of the law had a barrier between them & God because of the Scriptures but because they were doing everything of their own effort trying to fulfill the law....there they were ,face to face with the very One they had been waiting for & had their hopes on & they could not see Who He was.....blind eyes & deaf ears by the god of this world

      This is a very good example of trying to reconcile oneself to God.....without Jesus,no one can come to the Father....the Scriptures & the law did not cause the hardening of their hearts.....the enemy did,that is why Jesus called them a brood of vipers,sons of satan

                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

The parts above I put in bold are what I believe the OP is addressing.

 

It's all about what is in one's heart and what their motive is when reading and searching Scripture.

The funny thing is, for the most part I agree with the comments by Willamina, Kwikphilly and even AJChurney that you are agreeing with. 

[nebula]

 

 

It is not an either or choice of "living off the knowledge of good and evil rather than off of life."

According to Genesis 3, eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil resulted in man being cast out of the Garden so that he would not be able to eat from the Tree of Life. It does sound like an either-or situation to me.

 

22 And the LORD God said , Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat , and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken . 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way , to keep the way of the tree of life.

<snip>

Again, you are mis-reading what the author was saying.

What he is saying rather is more along the lines of:

Why do you bend over backwards trying to avoid sinning - is it to keep your salvation or is it out of love for God and love for others?

 

The commandment in Genesis was about eating of the fruit of that tree.  Once the knowledge of good and evil entered into the world, it was here.  Today, we can have the knowledge of good and evil and have life.  It is not one or the other....

 

I disagree with you on this, Butero. But that discussion deserves its own thread.

 

The Bible says in Ecclesiastes that the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.  If our reason for obeying is fear of hell, that is a good reason.

Avoiding punishment was the whole reason the Pharisees added so many rules to the Sabbath Law, to make extra sure no one broke the Sabbath.

[Guest]

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6

[Guest shiloh357]

People don't mature as quickly as they used to.   This is especially true of men.  We are a very entertainment and technology driven society and it it has kept boys from becoming men and men as old as 30 are still living like they were when they were 18. 

 

You can see this in colleges and universities.  College has become "advanced youth camp."   This country has become very juvenile and you can see it in our music, in our movies and other forms of entertatainment

 

What is bad is when you have youth leaders and you can't tell the difference between the youth leaders and the youth they are supposed to be leading.   They need to be led by adults.   Adults who have some years on them.  In our church, a college youth leader would only be allowed to serve under a seasoned adult youth leader.

[enoob57]

One clue would be how satan struggles to keep people out of the Word... look at the Catholic Church for centuries

they tried to the people from being able to read the Scriptures... Love, Steven 

[Openly Curious]

Nebula, 08 March 2014 - 06:35 PM said:

Avoiding punishment was the whole reason the Pharisees added so many rules to the Sabbath Law, to make extra sure no one broke the Sabbath.

Hi Nebula,

I am just curious here as you say that the Pharisees added rules to the Sabbath Law. This was done by them as extra precautions so no one would break the Sabbath. As this was the whole reason and would assure everyone would escape beingpunished.

I am not aware of this being taught in the scripture. Do you have any scripture that says or would verify this was in fact the case? If so I would like to look at them and take them into consideration.

I am aware of the scriptures that teach the Pharisees did put heavy burdens on the people that they themselves wouldn'teven keep as they did every thing for show and for the praises of men. Many of the Pharisees were hypocrital in doing so. Not only were they hypocritical but they went around condemning those who were not guilty before God. thanks

[nebula]

Nebula, 08 March 2014 - 06:35 PM said:

 

Avoiding punishment was the whole reason the Pharisees added so many rules to the Sabbath Law, to make extra sure no one broke the Sabbath.

Hi Nebula,

I am just curious here as you say that the Pharisees added rules to the Sabbath Law. This was done by them as extra precautions so no one would break the Sabbath. As this was the whole reason and would assure everyone would escape beingpunished.

I am not aware of this being taught in the scripture. Do you have any scripture that says or would verify this was in fact the case? If so I would like to look at them and take them into consideration.

I am aware of the scriptures that teach the Pharisees did put heavy burdens on the people that they themselves wouldn'teven keep as they did every thing for show and for the praises of men. Many of the Pharisees were hypocrital in doing so. Not only were they hypocritical but they went around condemning those who were not guilty before God. thanks

 

 

I can't say it is written in the Scripture. However, I thought this was common knowledge.

 

Sabbath-keeping also receives considerable reinforcement throughout the Old Testament. For instance, Ezekiel (Ezk. 20: 8-26) rebukes Israel at length for profaning the Sabbath. Nehemiah gives an account (Neh. 13:19-22) of enforcing the Sabbath upon his return to Jerusalem. Many other warnings occur scattered throughout the historical and prophetic books.

 

Work not clearly defined

However, despite all the warnings about keeping the Sabbath, rarely does Scripture give examples of what constitutes "work." Neither of the declarations of the Sabbath commandment in the decalogue defines "work," although both say that work should cease for the entire household, animals included. Elsewhere we can find prohibitions against kindling (Ex. 35:3), gathering firewood or manna (Num. 15:32-36, Ex. 16:29) and carrying a burden (Neh. 13:19). Yet even these acts required definition: how much was a burden? What could be considered kindling? This last example has taken major implications in the technological era, when rabbis and scholars have grappled with all kinds of electric and combustion-engine driven machines and devices. Does a spark of electricity constitute kindling? Largely, yes.

Making halachic (rules governing daily activities) decisions often requires scientific investigation: for example, rabbis distinguish between turning on an incandescent light and a fluorescent light.

With all this grist for their legalistic mill, the rabbis of old elevated Sabbath-keeping into the holiest of all laws. Of course, this level of piety required precise definitions galore, and they went at it with an enthusiasm that has not abated in thousands of years. A quotation from Adin Steinsaltz’s The Essential Talmud gives the flavor of the orthodox position on the Sabbath:

 

"In the most general sense, the numerous Sabbath laws are an expanding network of minute details deriving from several basic concepts, which eventually create an almost Gothic structure made up of thousands upon thousands of tiny and meticulously fashioned details clustered around an original form."

 

Forty less one

So where did the sages of old begin when they undertook the task of delineating and categorizing the Sabbath restrictions on work? Because on the original day of rest God rested from the work of creation, they chose the concept of "creative activity" as the basic definition of work. To model creative activity, they chose the construction of the tabernacle in the wilderness. Also, two clear prohibitions against working on the seventh day come in the immediate context of the instructions for the building of the tabernacle (Ex. 31:12-17, 35:1-3). Thus, the activities involving the construction of the tabernacle became the basic categories of Sabbath "work."

 

The Mishnah, the written codification of the oral tradition, lists "forty less one" (Shabbat VII.2) categories of work prohibited on the Sabbath. Some of them came directly from the work of the tabernacle itself, e.g., spinning, warping, sewing, and dyeing. Other areas included the agricultural activities implied in the use of a finished product, such as linen cloth. These would include sowing, plowing, reaping, binding sheaves, and winnowing. These prohibitions would cover activities in growing the plants from which they obtained fibers for the linen cloth.

 

Past and present regulations

From these thirty-nine categories, well established by the time of Jesus, came the thousands of specific halachah, or specific rules governing each situation and contingency. A few examples will help us understand how much of a grip the Sabbath halachah had on everyday life.

 

Read about these here

[Openly Curious]

 

Nebula, 08 March 2014 - 06:35 PM said:

 

Avoiding punishment was the whole reason the Pharisees added so many rules to the Sabbath Law, to make extra sure no one broke the Sabbath.

Hi Nebula,

I am just curious here as you say that the Pharisees added rules to the Sabbath Law. This was done by them as extra precautions so no one would break the Sabbath. As this was the whole reason and would assure everyone would escape beingpunished.

I am not aware of this being taught in the scripture. Do you have any scripture that says or would verify this was in fact the case? If so I would like to look at them and take them into consideration.

I am aware of the scriptures that teach the Pharisees did put heavy burdens on the people that they themselves wouldn'teven keep as they did every thing for show and for the praises of men. Many of the Pharisees were hypocrital in doing so. Not only were they hypocritical but they went around condemning those who were not guilty before God. thanks

 

 

I can't say it is written in the Scripture. However, I thought this was common knowledge.

 

Thanks Nebula for clarifying.  It was the first time I had ever heard it.  So I wanted to look into the scriptures to see it for myself but there are none oh well. 

[nebula]

I can't say it is written in the Scripture. However, I thought this was common knowledge.

 

Thanks Nebula for clarifying.  It was the first time I had ever heard it.  So I wanted to look into the scriptures to see it for myself but there are none oh well. 

 

OK. Sorry. Some things from Biblical times are known from historical records; this is one of them.