CCCI and Lordship Salvation?

[Willa]

So your are opposed to our commiting our lives to Him and a lifestyle of serving Him?Are you opposed to our becoming disciples and do you want us to remain carnal babes in Christ?Do you want us to avoid reading the Bible and be Sunday hearers of God's word but not doers?Are we to be rebels and never enjoy the blessings of obeying Him?Haven't you ever made Jesus your Lord? ...

We can't "make" Jesus what He already is.I am opposed to putting preconditions to the salvation freely offered through grace -- and according to his epistles, I strongly believe St. Paul would vehemently oppose those preconditions at as well.In plain English, it should be obvious that a life of service and discipleship follows, not precedes, salvation and to insist otherwise is a Catch-22: To be saved you must make Jesus Lord, but you can only make Him Lord if you are saved."The Wycliffe Bible Dictionary seems to understand what Lordship Salvation advocates do not; 'While transformation of life is not the ground for salvation, it is the evidence of salvation ...'"http://www.dtl.org/salvation/article/guest/lordship-1.htm

OK, you just confessed Jesus is Lord. That is what I was wanting to see you state.

However, the rest of your statement is precisely what Campus Crusade teaches now and has taught me in the past.

You are preaching to the choir and battling windmills. CRU has no arguement with you. You are imagining things.

Blessings,

Willa

[Atwood]

Old School Posted: "We can't "make" Jesus what He already is."

That is true.

Posted: "I am opposed to putting preconditions to the salvation freely offered through grace -- and according to his epistles, I strongly believe St. Paul would vehemently oppose those preconditions at as well."

ITA

Posted: "In plain English, it should be obvious that a life of service and discipleship follows, not precedes, salvation and to insist otherwise is a Catch-22: To be saved you must make Jesus Lord, but you can only make Him Lord if you are saved."

There are two issues here:

1) It is indeed a prerequisite to salvation to have the Lord Jesus defined sufficiently accurately. He must be trusted as the God-man, as very God, as LORD (=YHWH). Thus, to have Him in mind as LORD (Yahweh, very God) is essential. If you trust some "Jesus," who is an imaginary being or not the Jesus of the Bible, such trust (faith) does not save.

2) It is not a prerequisite to promise to obey Christ as Lord (Adonai) to be saved.

Posted: "The Wycliffe Bible Dictionary seems to understand what Lordship Salvation advocates do not; 'While transformation of life is not the ground for salvation, it is the evidence of salvation ...'"

ITA

To be sure, no matter what we do, the Lord Jesus is Lord in every Biblical sense of the word. However, functionally it is possible to live without him directing our life (living in rebellion is possible). Thus in a sense one does need to accept Christ continually as the Boss, the Lord of one's life. But this is fulfilled when we trust Him continuously as our grace-Savior. The life which I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave His life for me. I do not make void the grace of God.!

"And why so you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

"What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? Let it not be so Do you not know, that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"

We indeed must present ourselves to the Lord as His servants for obedience. Romans 6 has a crucial sequence: "Know, reckon, present."

Edited April 11, 2014 by Atwood

[OldSchool2]

So your are opposed to our commiting our lives to Him and a lifestyle of serving Him?Are you opposed to our becoming disciples and do you want us to remain carnal babes in Christ?Do you want us to avoid reading the Bible and be Sunday hearers of God's word but not doers?Are we to be rebels and never enjoy the blessings of obeying Him?Haven't you ever made Jesus your Lord? ...

We can't "make" Jesus what He already is. I am opposed to putting preconditions to the salvation freely offered through grace -- and according to his epistles, I strongly believe St. Paul would vehemently oppose those preconditions at as well.In plain English, it should be obvious that a life of service and discipleship follows, not precedes, salvation and to insist otherwise is a Catch-22: To be saved you must make Jesus Lord, but you can only make Him Lord if you are saved."The Wycliffe Bible Dictionary seems to understand what Lordship Salvation advocates do not; 'While transformation of life is not the ground for salvation, it is the evidence of salvation ...'"http://www.dtl.org/salvation/article/guest/lordship-1.htm

OK, you just confessed Jesus is Lord. That is what I was wanting to see you state.

However, the rest of your statement is precisely what Campus Crusade teaches now and has taught me in the past.

You are preaching to the choir and battling windmills. CRU has no arguement with you ...

But I still have a bone to pick with Bill Bright's Lordship Salvation and I'm not the only one who is "imagining" that he advocates it after reading Bright's excerpt in my daily devotional, Time With God, last week.

[Guest]

OK, you just confessed Jesus is Lord. That is what I was wanting to see you state.

However, the rest of your statement is precisely what Campus Crusade teaches now and has taught me in the past.

You are preaching to the choir and battling windmills. CRU has no arguement with you ...

But I still have a bone to pick with Bill Bright's Lordship Salvation and I'm not the only one who is "imagining" that he advocates it after reading Bright's excerpt in my daily devotional, Time With God, last week.

 

 

Take The Cup And Call Upon The Name Of The LORD

 

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:12-13

 

And God Gets

 

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:3

 

All The

 

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

 

Glory

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

Glory

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

[OneLight]

Salvation is just the beginning of a life in Christ. 
 
Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

 
But is it the end?

Philippians 2:12

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

[Guest]

 

Jesus

 

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

 

Saves

 

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

 

And Little Babies

 

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 1 Peter 2:2

 

Grow

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

And Grow

 

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

 

In Grace

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

Through Jesus

 

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4

 

You See

 

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

 

~

 

Sanctification (Holiness) Comes From

 

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

 

One's Walk With Jesus

 

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Mark 16:24

 

Faithfully

 

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6

 

Ever Wonder Who (Really) Is The Faithful One....

 

When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. Isaiah 43:2

 

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

 

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

 

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:1-3

[Guest]

 46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”

 

21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” 

 

Jesus is often referred to as Lord AND Savior in the bible, in the same breath. In my opinion, if he is not Lord, He is not savior. Not that one needs to make Jesus Lord (He is Lord apart from our efforts) but that those who are saved, will have Him as Lord. We repent, and we are sanctified. When we are saved, it is God working in us, to conform us to the image of His Son. As James put it:

 

  14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

      18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

If that is not clear as a bell that saving faith produces works, I don't know what more can be said. Faith alone does not save, because saving faith is not alone.

 

Jesus IS LORD! The issue with Lordship Salvation, is that it misrepresents the relationship. It is not the Lordship that saves. it is the salvation that produces the Lordship.

[OldSchool2]

Salvation is just the beginning of a life in Christ ...

... as a life of sanctification begins after introductions are made, not before.

[Guest]

Jesus IS LORD!

 

The issue with Lordship Salvation, is that it misrepresents the relationship.

 

It is not the Lordship that saves.

 

it is the salvation that produces the Lordship.

 

 

Amen~! Saved Or No, His Lordship Is What He Is

 

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: ) Acts 10:36

 

Some Eagerly Confess It Now

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

All Will Confess It Later

 

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:11-12

 

Jesus IS LORD

 

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

 

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

 

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 

And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 5:11-14

 

Amen~!

[OneLight]

 

Salvation is just the beginning of a life in Christ ...

... as a life of sanctification begins after introductions are made, not before.

 

While I also agree that sanctification cannot begin until the Holy Spirits indwelling and seal after salvation, He is also working a change in everyone before as He convicts us of our sins and points us to Christ. Left to our own demise, I don't see anyone turning to Christ. He has to draw us to Him, which, for me, meant changing my hearts desire, showing me that my life was full of sin and that He has a better way.

The work of the Holy Spirit begins before salvation, convicting the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

John 16:5-11

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

You may find that we have a lot in agreement, but it is hard for me to see this because when asked in another thread for your definition of Lordship Salvation, all you did was point me to a web site, which explains what someone else thought. I need to hear from you, in your own words, what you believe for me to understand your stance as we discuss.