Revelation 13

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first beast and second beast are ages apart. The first beast is religious system dating back from the old covenant times and the second beast that carries on with the first beast's legacy and is christian in appearance (lamb like).

The mark of the beast is the first beast's mark and it is he that is being worshipped and not the second beast. The second beast is an advocate on behalf of the first beast. The first beast is a symbol of Babylon, whereas the second beast is a continuation of the fallen first century Babylon religious system as now the global mystery Babylon religion that encompasses the whole world.

how do you throw the second beast and the false prophet in the fire if the beast is a religious system The beast has to be some kind of entity or we couldn't throw it into the fire.

It was a religious entity that existed even during the time of the prophets of the Old Testament.

Matthew 23:37

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

So to be that old and be an entity it must be a fallen angel?  I really don't think you can throw an abstraction like religion into the lake of fire.  The lake of fire is for Satan and his angels.  The goats who follow Satan will be there too.  Babylon is synonymous with rebellion against God.

Babylon is a religious system because it is labeled a harlot. To be called a harlot the religious system must have had at one time a husband, before her husband disowned her because of her rejecting him.

 

And yet "Babylon the great wh**e is a CITY - in fact the city of Jerusalem. How can this be? Was John wrong?  During the last half of the future 70th week the Beast and False Prophet will be deceiving the entire world (except for those written in heaven) - FROM THE CITY OF JERUSALEM! Believe it, for it is true. Of course Jerusalem the city, mystery "Babalon the Great" used to be the city of Soloman's temple, where the Queen of Sheba came and left amazed. But during the last half of the 70th week, the greatest deception every presented in the world will come from this very same city of God and deceive the entire world save a few who believe.

 

LAMAD

 

Babylon the city is destroyed before the false prophet comes on the scene, just prior to the final 3.5 years.

 

Scripture and verse for this? Or did you just pull it out of your hat? It reads like nonsense, not scripture.

 

oh! Perhaps you are reading prophecy as if it had already happened?

 

LAMAD

 

Actually there are many passages and concepts to be understood to get to that point.  I would go into detail if I thought there was a willingness to hear it rather than it just being used as fodder for insults.  The gist is:

• The evil angel (beast from the sea) comes up out of the abyss and forms a multinational government (feet of iron and clay)
• He uses that government, and the 10 leaders to set up the infrastructure for the mark
• The 10 leaders (there's only one set of 10 leaders) start their reign by destroying the world's capital (Babylon).  They impose their authority by economic control and probably plan to reign for a long time but....
• The false prophet hijacks their system right away, limiting their time as kings to about an hour.
• The ten leaders realize they've been had...three of them decide to do something about it and come against the false prophet with an overwhelming military force (mortally wounded head, certain death to his kingdom) but wait...
• The false prophet is empowered by the evil angel, who has also received Satan's power, throne, and great authority.  He calls fire down from heaven and wipes out the forces brought to bear against him.  The mortal wound is healed.  Peace is restored. The world is amazed.
• Thus begins the false prophet's authority to act (with signs and wonders) for 42 months.

Go ahead and call in nonsense if that makes you feel better but I can support all of those ideas with scripture and its what makes the most sense to me...at this point in time.

 

Sorry, but at this point in time, if there were only one (ten,) there would now be only 7. Did you forget that the Beast or man of sin will take down three of the ten? That leaves 7. Does it not say that he becomes the 8th? This is why I say there is a DIFFERENT Ten that throw in with him at the end, to destroy Israel and Jerusalem.

 

You are right, I don't agree with much you wrote there.

 

LAMAD

 

The 8th is in the context of the seven head in Rev 17:10-11.  Not the 10 horns.  Context.  Remember context?  There is one set of ten horns.

• The little horn in Daniel 7 that came up among the ten horns who became a large horn is the false prophet.  His change in size reflects his change in power status after he destroys the three rebel kings supernaturally.
• The ten horns as described in Rev 17 give their kingdom to the beast from the sea and reign with him for one hour.  The beast from the sea, with seven heads and ten horns, is a fallen angel, not the false prophet.

This is a good example of the importance of identifying who's who.  If you see the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (Rev 17) as being the same as the little horn turned big (Dan 7) then then, yes, there's a problem.  The answer is not in creating a new set of ten horns but in correctly identifying who is who.

 

I believe your "second set of 10 horns" arises from trying to resolve the apparent conflict in these two passages.

 

This is how I see it and why.  I'm not looking for people to agree with me.  I'm looking to make sense of prophetic scripture, not be dogmatic about it.  This is what makes the most sense to me...at this point in time.

 

You are right; heads versus horns.  However, I cannot get past this:

 

¹² Also the ten horns that you observed are ten rulers (kings) who have as yet received no royal dominion, but together they are to receive power and authority as rulers for a single hour, along with the beast.

 

Note that these ten have NO RULERSHIP at this time and apparently have not had in the past. And the timing of this is AFTER the 70th week is finished. THis tells me there is a NEW TEN. And I would not be surprised that "one hour" is accurate to a real earthly hour. It is probably the hour of the battle of Armageddon. In short, the Beast asks for HELP, and gets it. It appears at least ten people that can wield armies desire to wipe Israel off the map. Well, no surprise there.

 

LAMAD

 

[Salty]

Salty,

We talking about during the 1000 ye reign of Jesus

The problem your facing is due to the following

2 Samuel 7:10: "Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more: 

the appointed places that the house of Israel currently occupy is not a condition it is a promise. Samuel confirms the House of Israel will still occupy their appointed places and move no more even during the reign of Jesus here on earth...All other prophesies I have shown you confirms this

It is impossible for the magnitude of the size of the house of Israel to be all gathered and dumped into Israel...The land mass is simply not big enough....you do realise the same amount of Israelites who left the Holy land carried on breeding? You do realise the population grew over The past 3000 yrs?

Gentile kings? Where does this manufactured dribble come from? Last time I checked there were 12 gates not 13 with the name gentle on it.

 

Well, you're only wanting to view that 2 Samuel verse in context of this present world, since God scattered the majority of His people (including most of the house of Judah also). You're not considering that the place He speaks of that He will appoint and move them no more is the area of the Middle East after Christ gathers both houses again into "one stick" in His hand...

 

Ezek.37

¹¹ Then He said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, "Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts."

¹² Therefore prophesy and say unto them, "Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel."

 

 

Ezek.37

¹⁶ Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, "For Judah", and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, "For Joseph", the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

¹⁷ And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

¹⁸ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, "Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?"

¹⁹ Say unto them, "Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand."

²⁰ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

²¹ And say unto them, "Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all."

[Salty]

Salty,

You making this too easy for me

Why would God send a prophet called Samuel during a period where the Israelites are ALREADY in the promised land under King David and tell them he will a point them a place, when it's ALREADY BEEN APPOINTED. Why would God give a Prophecy when it's ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED?

Further please concentrate on the following scripture

Isaiah 10:22:

“For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return and the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.”

 

Why did our Heavenly Father say in the Ezek.37 Scripture that He will gather "the whole house of Israel" and bring them to the mountains of Israel?

[Montana Marv]

The remnant of Israel who are gathered and who remain are not the 144,000.  Two separate entities.  The 144,000 have a special purpose during the Mill; to follow the Lamb, and to sing a new song that only they (the 144,000) know.  Yet the remnant of Israel will be ruled over by Christ during the mill.  Ten people from every tribe, nation and people will grab hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and ask to go with him when he goes to see the Lord.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Defending the Name]

The remnant of Israel who are gathered and who remain are not the 144,000.  Two separate entities.  The 144,000 have a special purpose during the Mill; to follow the Lamb, and to sing a new song that only they (the 144,000) know.  Yet the remnant of Israel will be ruled over by Christ during the mill.  Ten people from every tribe, nation and people will grab hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and ask to go with him when he goes to see the Lord.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

The 144,000 are not the only ones to sing the new song. Remember these were the first to be redeemed from amongst men, meaning they were the first fruits reaped from the great harvest of God. What does that mean? They were raised from the dead.

They sing a song that no man yet to be redeemed can sing because they have entered eternal life through the resurrection of the dead, which means they had initially died, therefore they can sing the blues so to speak because they have gone through the experience.

The 144,000 are not the only ones who can sing the new song that no man can sing, so who is the second group along them that can sing that song?

Revelation 15:3

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

There are two groups who sing the song that no man still living in the human body can sing. The first fruits from the harvest who were redeemed sing the SONG OF MOSES, this automatically identifies them as the 144,000 old covenant Jews who were the 12 tribes of the children of Israel mention in Rev. 7:5-9. The second group who sing the SONG OF THE LAMB are mentioned in:

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The song of Moses identifies the first group as the old covenant Jews who were the first tonne redeemed from amongst men and those that song the song of the lamb are the many gentile nations to whom the gospel went out to and who made their robes white by the blood of the lamb of God.

The above explanation is perfect exposure of the two groups that sing the song that no man can sing, whether it be the song of Moses or the song of the lamb.

[iamlamad]

 

The remnant of Israel who are gathered and who remain are not the 144,000.  Two separate entities.  The 144,000 have a special purpose during the Mill; to follow the Lamb, and to sing a new song that only they (the 144,000) know.  Yet the remnant of Israel will be ruled over by Christ during the mill.  Ten people from every tribe, nation and people will grab hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and ask to go with him when he goes to see the Lord.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

The 144,000 are not the only ones to sing the new song. Remember these were the first to be redeemed from amongst men, meaning they were the first fruits reaped from the great harvest of God. What does that mean? They were raised from the dead.

They sing a song that no man yet to be redeemed can sing because they have entered eternal life through the resurrection of the dead, which means they had initially died, therefore they can sing the blues so to speak because they have gone through the experience.

The 144,000 are not the only ones who can sing the new song that no man can sing, so who is the second group along them that can sing that song?

Revelation 15:3

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

There are two groups who sing the song that no man still living in the human body can sing. The first fruits from the harvest who were redeemed sing the SONG OF MOSES, this automatically identifies them as the 144,000 old covenant Jews who were the 12 tribes of the children of Israel mention in Rev. 7:5-9. The second group who sing the SONG OF THE LAMB are mentioned in:

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The song of Moses identifies the first group as the old covenant Jews who were the first tonne redeemed from amongst men and those that song the song of the lamb are the many gentile nations to whom the gospel went out to and who made their robes white by the blood of the lamb of God.

The above explanation is perfect exposure of the two groups that sing the song that no man can sing, whether it be the song of Moses or the song of the lamb.

 

This is total MYTH.

 

There is not one hint or one word that hints that the 144,000 died and were resurrected. Rather, they were RAPTURED into heaven.

And the large group, too large to number, seen in heaven in Rev. 7 is the just raptured CHURCH. We don't know who the harpists are, because John did not tell us.

 

LAMAD

[other one]

 

Scripture has to be interpreted from John's time right up to she the beast of the bottomless Pitt aka satan emerges as the man of sin to destroy the seven hilled city (Christianity). To look and interpret scriptures through political events is to look through a straw.

God is concerned with worship and does not care about earthly kingdoms. God is calling you out of the earthly real to him, by worshipping him and supping with him. Babylon (first beast) and mystery Babylon (second beast) are thousands of years apart.

Satan as "the man of sin?" I thought a man was a man? I thought an angel was an angel and NEVER the twain shall meet - so to speak. Satan will NEVER become a man - he will only possess a man.

 

LAMAD

 

Actually it is possible for them to have and fill a human body.     If you want details of that, you might contact Carolyn Hammlett.    she's available on the internet.  I can't speak of first hand experience as she can.

[other one]

Scripture states that The Lord Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Ghost. Jesus of Nazareth was the Holy Spirit encased in a human body. The reason why Jesus said that he must go before the Holy Ghost can come is further evidence that the Holy Spirit became restricted in the presence of the Son of Man, the Christ, therefore his presence as the Son of Man had to go in order for him to come back again as the omnipresent Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost presented himself as a man and took on the form of his servants (Phillipians 2:5-8).

Matthew 1:18-20

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

are you saying that the Holy Spirit was in Jesus?   He did not have another spirit?

[Salty]

Salty

Because he said he would gather all the 12 tribes together which he is going to do not all the people in the 12 tribes hence your confusion?

Just a thought hey

 

Were are just going to have to disagree then, because I in no way see that idea fitting the Amos 9:9 Scripture where God said He will gather the house of Israel as grain through a sieve, and not least grain will fall to the ground.

[iamlamad]

 

 

Scripture has to be interpreted from John's time right up to she the beast of the bottomless Pitt aka satan emerges as the man of sin to destroy the seven hilled city (Christianity). To look and interpret scriptures through political events is to look through a straw.

God is concerned with worship and does not care about earthly kingdoms. God is calling you out of the earthly real to him, by worshipping him and supping with him. Babylon (first beast) and mystery Babylon (second beast) are thousands of years apart.

Satan as "the man of sin?" I thought a man was a man? I thought an angel was an angel and NEVER the twain shall meet - so to speak. Satan will NEVER become a man - he will only possess a man.

 

LAMAD

 

Actually it is possible for them to have and fill a human body.     If you want details of that, you might contact Carolyn Hammlett.    she's available on the internet.  I can't speak of first hand experience as she can.

 

I am well acquainted with demonic possession, having cast out thousands of them over the years. I believe the man of sin will be possessed by Satan very shortly after Satan is cast down from his "high places."

 

LAMAD