Revelation 13

[rollinTHUNDER]

Thanks rollinTHUNDER,

 

We agree on quite a bit, especially that Islam will play a major role, as you said. I think when we study together the forming of this Global Government then a lot of bits will come together as we see it unfold.

 

And yes I realised you were having a joke.

Very true, Marilyn,

Two or three heads are almost always better than one.

By the way, I just thought of another reason Rome will revive. If Daniel's fourth beast does not devour the whole earth, then Daniel's prophecy will not be fulfilled. The fourth beast was the only one that Daniel said will devour the entire world. And since it did not happen in the first go-round, it must happen the next time around, otherwise Daniel's prophecy is not true. But we know that he was not a false prophet, because Christ said he was a prophet.

Cheers

[Paradox]

Paradox,

You said this.....

Salty, Rome was divided into ten distinct kingdoms, all which had to consent to support the Papacy. Three did not, and lost their kingdoms, by 538 AD through the Justinian decree it began the official full reign ruling until 1798 AD - 1260 years.

Spock: I had read that previously from some site/article, but it didn't find fertile ground with me. I believe these ten toes are strictly during the end times- Daniels 70th week. I do not believe the time Napoleon usurped the popes rule was significant (1798). Thus the 1260 years is irrelevant. I think someone was playing with numbers when they came up with that theory.

Sure, but then again the 1260 years are part of the 1335 years and 1290 years which tie in the end of the 2300 years. Which are tied down in the beginning by the 490 years 483 yrs, 49 yrs, 7 yrs and 434 yrs. Which all begin with the rebuilding if the walls of Jerusalem, under the rule of the Persian Artaxerxes. Ezra chapter 9.

So this largest time prophecy is anchored by 9 time spans, plus an immovable anchor in the midst - the death of Christ.

 

I understand from other posts that, this may be what is called a "historical approach," and that there are other applications, in various times according to some, and others like to keep the days literal rather than converting them to years, and paste the whole scenario into the future.

 

If they are literal days, it makes sense to try and squeeze these times around Christ's mission on earth, but if in the future, then the term messiah has to be redefined or applied to His next appearing.

[Paradox]

 

Very true, Marilyn,

...By the way, I just thought of another reason Rome will revive. If Daniel's fourth beast does not devour the whole earth, then Daniel's prophecy will not be fulfilled. The fourth beast was the only one that Daniel said will devour the entire world. And since it did not happen in the first go-round, it must happen the next time around, otherwise Daniel's prophecy is not true. But we know that he was not a false prophet, because Christ said he was a prophet...

Cheers

 

One problem with this 'devouring' may be that the other three out live it. If it devours the entire earth, then the other three would not be able to continue. Dan 7:12. 

 

When it says "devour the whole earth," how do you know it means more than the world's political powers and palaces?

 

The bear devoured much flesh, but Rome burned down places as well, she broke down her enemies, she conquered all the ancient world.

[Salty]

Salty, Rome was divided into ten distinct kingdoms, all which had to consent to support the Papacy. Three did not, and lost their kingdoms, by 538 AD through the Justinian decree it began the official full reign ruling until 1798 AD - 1260 years.

 

 

Unfounded. The Roman empire included the eastern branch also, eastern Europe, Asia Minor, and Africa. It involved a lot more kingdoms than ten. Same with the European nations under the pope after the empire fell, i.e., more than ten. That idea is wishful thinking of the Historicist school.

[ARGOSY]

 

Thanks rollinTHUNDER,

 

We agree on quite a bit, especially that Islam will play a major role, as you said. I think when we study together the forming of this Global Government then a lot of bits will come together as we see it unfold.

 

And yes I realised you were having a joke.

Very true, Marilyn,

Two or three heads are almost always better than one.

By the way, I just thought of another reason Rome will revive. If Daniel's fourth beast does not devour the whole earth, then Daniel's prophecy will not be fulfilled. The fourth beast was the only one that Daniel said will devour the entire world. And since it did not happen in the first go-round, it must happen the next time around, otherwise Daniel's prophecy is not true. But we know that he was not a false prophet, because Christ said he was a prophet.

Cheers

 

 

 

I see Rome as an ongoing power representing Western Europe and often its intertwined relationship with Papal/Vatican manipulation.  I believe over a few hundred years Western Europe did conquer the earth and split up massive regions into tiny countries (colonialism). In this way nearly the entire North America, South America, parts of Asia (and Australasia) and even the Middle East came under European control. The nations of Europe divided the world between them. 

 

Entire nations in Africa are English or Portuguese or French speaking. South America is Spanish and Portuguese. North America is English and a bit French. 

The British occupied Iran, India, and Egypt at various stages in history, even defeating China. Spain controlled the Phillipines, every country in South east Asia was colonialised except Thailand, which was left alone only through a treaty between France and England. Europeans decided the fate of Thailand.

 

So the 4th kingdom, Western Europe, has already trampled and broken the entire world into bits. 

[rollinTHUNDER]

 

Very true, Marilyn,

...By the way, I just thought of another reason Rome will revive. If Daniel's fourth beast does not devour the whole earth, then Daniel's prophecy will not be fulfilled. The fourth beast was the only one that Daniel said will devour the entire world. And since it did not happen in the first go-round, it must happen the next time around, otherwise Daniel's prophecy is not true. But we know that he was not a false prophet, because Christ said he was a prophet...

Cheers

One problem with this 'devouring' may be that the other three out live it. If it devours the entire earth, then the other three would not be able to continue. Dan 7:12.

 

Hi Paradox,

That's not so. Each of the first three kingdoms lost their dominion, after being conquered by the following kingdom, each in their own order. And each became subject to the following kingdom. So the survivors were permitted to live out their lives completely, because God's judgment won't come until the time of the end. If you'll notice in Daniel 2, when the stone that was cut out of a mountain without hands (Christ) comes, it will smash the entire statue, iron, brass, clay, silver and gold, ending the rule of man and Satan's kingdom of darkness once and for all (vs. 45). Then He will set up His millennial kingdom and the saints will reign with Him for 1000 years and then forever more. 

 

When it says "devour the whole earth," how do you know it means more than the world's political powers and palaces?

 

The bear devoured much flesh, but Rome burned down places as well, she broke down her enemies, she conquered all the ancient world.

It will be even worse than that. This beast will seek to control every individual on this planet.

Revelation 13:16-17

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

Verse 5 confirms that this will also occur during the final 42 months, after the abomination of desolation.  So if you're looking for this to be fulfilled in the past, you are wasting your time. 

 

 

Cheers

[rollinTHUNDER]

Thanks rollinTHUNDER,

 

We agree on quite a bit, especially that Islam will play a major role, as you said. I think when we study together the forming of this Global Government then a lot of bits will come together as we see it unfold.

 

And yes I realised you were having a joke.

Very true, Marilyn,

Two or three heads are almost always better than one.

By the way, I just thought of another reason Rome will revive. If Daniel's fourth beast does not devour the whole earth, then Daniel's prophecy will not be fulfilled. The fourth beast was the only one that Daniel said will devour the entire world. And since it did not happen in the first go-round, it must happen the next time around, otherwise Daniel's prophecy is not true. But we know that he was not a false prophet, because Christ said he was a prophet.

Cheers

 

 

I see Rome as an ongoing power representing Western Europe and often its intertwined relationship with Papal/Vatican manipulation.  I believe over a few hundred years Western Europe did conquer the earth and split up massive regions into tiny countries (colonialism). In this way nearly the entire North America, South America, parts of Asia (and Australasia) and even the Middle East came under European control. The nations of Europe divided the world between them. 

 

Entire nations in Africa are English or Portuguese or French speaking. South America is Spanish and Portuguese. North America is English and a bit French. 

The British occupied Iran, India, and Egypt at various stages in history, even defeating China. Spain controlled the Phillipines, every country in South east Asia was colonialised except Thailand, which was left alone only through a treaty between France and England. Europeans decided the fate of Thailand.

 

So the 4th kingdom, Western Europe, has already trampled and broken the entire world into bits.

Hi ARGOSY,

Good observation. Rome was never conquered by another. This world has been carved up in several different ways, however, this prophecy won't be fulfilled until the ten kings arise to reign with the beast in the final 42 months or in the great tribulation.

Cheers

[ARGOSY]

 

Hi ARGOSY,

Good observation. Rome was never conquered by another. This world has been carved up in several different ways, however, this prophecy won't be fulfilled until the ten kings arise to reign with the beast in the final 42 months or in the great tribulation.

Cheers

 

Thanks, I could be wrong, but the context of Dnaiel 7 to me indicates its possible that the breaking into pieces occurs before the rising of the ten horns:

 

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hi ARGOSY,

Good observation. Rome was never conquered by another. This world has been carved up in several different ways, however, this prophecy won't be fulfilled until the ten kings arise to reign with the beast in the final 42 months or in the great tribulation.

Cheers

Thanks, I could be wrong, but the context of Dnaiel 7 to me indicates its possible that the breaking into pieces occurs before the rising of the ten horns:

 

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings.

Read the next verse, then Rev. 13.

Cheers

[Salty]

Folks, if you really want to know who it was that instituted the EU system, read Golitsyn's New Lies For Old written prior to the Berlin Wall coming down (he predicted it would be allowed to come down as part of the Soviet's long-range disinformation strategy against the West). He was an ex-KGB colonel that defected to the U.S. in the 1960's. The German economic unions structure set the stage, but Communist Russia initiated it, not Rome and not the Roman Church in Rome. A one Socialist Europe was a plan by world Communism, not a pope in Rome. As a matter of fact the Communists have tried to kill the pope a couple of times back in history.

 

The Historicist seminaries are still playing the old Rome card from the Protestant Reformer's beliefs, as they're still playing the idea about a pope in Rome being the coming Antichrist in Jerusalem.