Revelation 13

[Salty]

Hopefully, when the "abomination of desolation" is setup by the Antichrist/pseudo-messiah in Jerusalem, the majority of Jews there will understand how they've been duped, and will refuse to bow to that Antichrist in false worship, knowing that is not Messiah. But per those Zechariah examples, that doesn't see to be the case with all of them. There has to be some that fall into false worship in order to be shocked with wanting the mountains and hills to fall on them when Jesus appears, per the 6th Seal of Rev.6 and what Christ told the Jews in Luke 23 about the Blessed are the barren Message.

[Salty]

Judah returning to the holy lands in 1948 was Bible prophecy per Jeremiah 24. But it only involves a remnant of the house of Judah, because the majority of them are still scattered among the nations, especially in the Christian west.

 

Per Ezekiel 37, God said He will join both houses back together, as one stick. Nowhere does that imply that the house of Judah only gathered first, and then the house of Israel later.

 

The siege against Judah for the end of days is about the state of Israel in the Middle East today. That's showing only a remnant of Judah there all the way up to the day of Christ's return on the "day of the Lord" (Zech.14).

 

Although both houses will be gathered back to the holy lands of promise, the only ones who will reign with Christ Jesus are those of His Church, of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile. Those of the seed of Israel that rejected Christ Jesus will stand in judgment throughout His Millennium reign, just as Ezek.44 reveals. They will be taught by His elect Church who only will be allowed to approach Christ in that time.

[Montana Marv]

Judah returning to the holy lands in 1948 was Bible prophecy per Jeremiah 24. But it only involves a remnant of the house of Judah, because the majority of them are still scattered among the nations, especially in the Christian west.

 

Per Ezekiel 37, God said He will join both houses back together, as one stick. Nowhere does that imply that the house of Judah only gathered first, and then the house of Israel later.

 

The siege against Judah for the end of days is about the state of Israel in the Middle East today. That's showing only a remnant of Judah there all the way up to the day of Christ's return on the "day of the Lord" (Zech.14).

 

Although both houses will be gathered back to the holy lands of promise, the only ones who will reign with Christ Jesus are those of His Church, of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile. Those of the seed of Israel that rejected Christ Jesus will stand in judgment throughout His Millennium reign, just as Ezek.44 reveals. They will be taught by His elect Church who only will be allowed to approach Christ in that time.

Salty

 

It has been appointed for man to die once, then the judgment.

 

And your Ezk 44 is not all about the Mill Kingdom.  See verse 25 - A priest must not defile himself by going near a dead person; however, if the dead person was his father or mother, son or daughter, brother or unmarried sister, then he may defile himself.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

Salty

 

It has been appointed for man to die once, then the judgment.

 

And your Ezk 44 is not all about the Mill Kingdom.  See verse 25 - A priest must not defile himself by going near a dead person; however, if the dead person was his father or mother, son or daughter, brother or unmarried sister, then he may defile himself.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

And who are the "dead" in that Millennial time? Those who's souls are in a liable to perish state at the "second death". Jesus covered that kind of metaphor when He showed how the Pharisees were like whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones, or graves that men walk over and are not aware. The idea is being without The Holy Spirit unto God's Salvation through His Son. Every unbeliever walking upon this earth today is "dead" in their souls without Christ Jesus, and will remain as such throughout His future thousand years IF... they do not repent and believe on Christ Jesus.

 

This is why Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 that to have eternal life through Christ, one's body of corruption must put on incorruption, AND... one's mortal (soul) must put on immortality. Thus the meaning of the "dead" in that time means those spiritually dead in their souls without Christ Jesus.

[Montana Marv]

 

Salty

 

It has been appointed for man to die once, then the judgment.

 

And your Ezk 44 is not all about the Mill Kingdom.  See verse 25 - A priest must not defile himself by going near a dead person; however, if the dead person was his father or mother, son or daughter, brother or unmarried sister, then he may defile himself.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

And who are the "dead" in that Millennial time? Those who's souls are in a liable to perish state at the "second death". Jesus covered that kind of metaphor when He showed how the Pharisees were like whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones, or graves that men walk over and are not aware. The idea is being without The Holy Spirit unto God's Salvation through His Son. Every unbeliever walking upon this earth today is "dead" in their souls without Christ Jesus, and will remain as such throughout His future thousand years IF... they do not repent and believe on Christ Jesus.

 

This is why Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 that to have eternal life through Christ, one's body of corruption must put on incorruption, AND... one's mortal (soul) must put on immortality. Thus the meaning of the "dead" in that time means those spiritually dead in their souls without Christ Jesus.

 

Salty

 

That is not the point.  Your position is that all who are in the Mill Kingdom have receive their glorified bodies (those of Rev 7:9), [you have been chirping on this for months]...  There can be no death.  There can be no interaction with the dead souls during the Mill.  This is a fallacy of yours. These priests of Ezk 44 are not in the Mill Kingdom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

Salty

 

 

That is not the point.  Your position is that all who are in the Mill Kingdom have receive their glorified bodies (those of Rev 7:9), [you have been chirping on this for months]...  There can be no death.  There can be no interaction with the dead souls during the Mill.  This is a fallacy of yours. These priests of Ezk 44 are not in the Mill Kingdom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Why are you implying that I'm saying something different than what I've said all along? just because you don't yet understand?

 

Have you forgotten about the "dead" of Rev.20:5 and that I declared they were resurrected as the "resurrection of damnation" at Christ's coming per John 5:28-29? Have you forgotten all that already?

 

Apparently, you struggle with the Biblical concept of two separate types of deaths, the first being flesh death, and the second being the "second death" of Rev.20.

 

You also struggle with the idea of the incorruptible body, thinking it means automatic Salvation through our Lord Jesus. Have you even bothered... to look at the Isaiah 25 Scripture where Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up?

 

Read this, or don't read it, I don't care, but others might be helped by it:

 

Once again, in 1 Cor.15:53, Paul used 4 separate Greek words when speaking of "corruptible", "incorruption", "this mortal", and "immortality". The "and" conjunction separates the two operations that MUST occur to have eternal Life through Christ by that change there.

 

1 Cor.15

⁵³ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, AND this mortal must put on immortality. (my emphasis on the "AND").

 

First required change = corruptible body to a body of incorruption. This is the change all alive on earth will go through at Christ's coming. It is the change from the "image of the earthy" to the "image of the heavenly". It is the revealing of our "spiritual body". We each... have one. It is NOT a type body subject to killing like our flesh. It can only be destroyed by God at the "second death". It is the body type of the heavenly dimension.

 

Second required change = this mortal (soul) must put on immortality. The soul is mortal until... it receives Christ Jesus as The Saviour with The Holy Spirit. One's soul is thus SPIRITUALLY 'dead' until one believes on Christ Jesus. Until it believes on Christ, it is in a liable to die, or perish condition at the "second death". It only puts on immortality through Christ Jesus, at His coming. This is why the souls that appear standing before God's Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Rev.20 are still called "the dead". I know a lot of you believe the "dead" of Rev.20:5 are these souls that stand in Judgment at the end, and that's when they are resurrected. But you should be asking why Rev.20 still calls them "the dead" after they are resurrected to stand in Judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment.

[Salty]

There of course are other Scriptures in the OT prophets that cover more than that Isaiah 27:13 example.

 

Isaiah 43

1 But now thus saith the LORD That created thee, O Jacob, and He That formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine.

2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned ; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour : I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

4 Since thou wast precious in My sight, thou hast been honourable , and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up ; and to the south, Keep not back : bring My sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth;

7 Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him for My glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

 

Ezek.37

¹⁹ Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand.

²⁰ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

²¹ And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God.

²⁴ And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them.

[ARGOSY]

 

yet I provided you a military exports report on the war DECLARING ISRAEL was outnumbered, outgunned and most importantly technically inferior to the Arabs, every report on the war confirms the same thing.

 

 

It seems only those claiming a "miracle" also claim that Israel had the weaker technology. Other sources say Israel had superior technology:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110530-israels-borders-and-national-security#axzz3Aol9RFFI

"The second essential requirement was an alliance with a great power. Israel's strategy was based on superior technology and organization -- airpower, armor and so on. The true weakness of Israel's strategic power since the country's creation had been that its national security requirements outstripped its industrial and financial base. It could not domestically develop and produce all of the weapons it needed to fight a war. Israel depended first on the Soviets, then until 1967 on France."

 

http://courses.washington.edu/disisme/Our%20Encyclopaedia/4FC94629-71EA-40B1-8E92-A5A48AAD9920.html

Combat escalation called the United States to action.  The United States provided weapons and armament for Israel.  The Johnson White House did not want to send troops to the region and remained only a contributor of aid, walking a tightrope in the hope of keeping already strained relationships with Arab nations.  However, criticism from Arab nations accuse the United States of taking a much more active role in the conflict.  The Israeli military achievements of the Six-Day War were due in part to superior American weaponry, including advanced fighter technology, which proved pivotal when Israeli launched surprise attacks against its Arab neighbors (Oren, 2002, p. 171).

 

I will admit I was wrong in the number of available troops in the respective countries, but the claims that Israel had inferior technology are one-sided. It was the superior technology, better training, better intelligence and the fact that Israel initiated that war with a surprise attack which caused them to win that war. Add to that the sheer commitment of Israeli soldiers who had a stronger vested interest (fighting for their survival) up against an Arab alliance that was mainly manipulated by Soviet interests during the cold war. Frankly the Arabs were less committed to that war. 

 

[ARGOSY]

 

The danger of your statement is any act of Israel is now viewed as sinful, the mere fact Israel has the right to defend it'self  is now viewed as being sinful.

 

You have posted how sinful it was for Israel to slaughter 200 000 Palestinian and that the Arabs have lived peacefully with Jews, which is simply wishful thinking Ive posted you a map and dates how the Jews have been slaughted in NUMBERS by the arabs prior to 1948 and on the very same day of Israels independence they attacked to obliterate the Jews.

 

 

 

 

Anything the Jews do will be viewed as sinful by your view even the right to defend itself, further adding petrol to the flame by coming up with the notion the Antichrist must be jewish?

 

 

Hi inchrist,

 

You have misrepresented my position. 

 

Firstly, I never denied that Arabs have persecuted Jews in the past, I merely pointed out that some of them were living in peace with Jews in 1948 and did not deserve to be chased from their homes.

 

Secondly  I never claimed Israel "slaughtered" 200 000 Palestinians, the phrase I used is "ethnic cleansing" which is related to forced removal of a population based on ethnicity. The figure is over 700 000. 

 

Thirdly you say "Anything the Jews do will be viewed as sinful by your view even the right to defend itself".    This is a complete misrepresentation of my position, for example I support Israel defending itself from rocket attacks from Gaza. And I have repeatedly said in this thread that all countries, even Israel, do some good and some bad deeds, even the Israel of the bible.  So I don't understand why you would want to misrepresent my position and make it appear more extreme than it is. 

 

Please explain why you are misrepresenting my position.

[Salty]

Salty

 

There of course are other Scriptures in the OT prophets that cover more than that Isaiah 27:13 example.

 

 

Your jumping the gun and taking things out of context, lets first deal with Abrahamic Covenant.

 

The House of Judah today currently abides in the land of Canaan; The House of Israel today currently abides in the Appointed Places. This fact, plays an important role for Judah during the times ahead.

 

“For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's” (1 Chronicles 5:2). The sons of Joseph would become like the stars of heaven, etc., not Judah.

 

The Abrahamic covenant or the blessings or the inhertence of the 12 tribes was divided in Genesis chapters 48 and 49. “Judah was his sanctuary and Israel his dominion” (Psalm 114:2). “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Genesis 49:10). The sons of Joseph received the birthright, Judah the Scepter.

 

Judah would continue, until Christ returns, to be a self-governed and legally-constituted tribe, which we currently see today

 

When would the birthrights find their fulfillment? “And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the LAST DAYS” (Genesis 49:1)

 

Plainly unfolded for you Genesis 49:10

 

Step 1 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah" - Judah will still be a legally constituted country (1948 Israel)

Step 2  nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come - when does Shiloh come? in the last days Genesis 49:1

Step 3  and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” - the lost 10 tribes 

 

I agree with just about all you said there, except one major point you have wrongly assumed.

 

The "sceptre" of Gen.49:10 means the rule of a 'king', and must be born of the tribe of Judah. Jerusalem has had no king of the house of David upon a throne since the days of Jeremiah the prophet. It has had kings there since, but not of the house of David of the tribe of Judah (Herod was of Esau).

 

Here is what our Heavenly Father prophesied about those of the house of Judah in the holy land today:

 

1 Kings 11

¹³ Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David My servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.

 

1 Kings 11

³⁶ And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.

 

 

That is when our Heavenly Father split old Israel into two kingdoms and gave Solomon's son Rehoboam one tribe (Judah) at Jerusalem (later Benjamin and the Levites joined with them). He then gave Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim to rule over Israel, meaning the ten northern tribes with its capital city at Samaria.

 

But the reign of the house of David ended in Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day, never to be setup there again, still yet today.

 

The ten tribes were removed and scattered through the nations, as were the majority of the house of Judah. Only a small remnant of the house of Judah returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity, and still only small remnants of them are returning today, the majority of them still scattered like the ten tribes are. And that reign of the house of David will not return to Jerusalem until... the day of Christ Jesus' return there on the last day of this present world.

 

So where are you getting your history and timing of Gen.49:10 from, because it does not fit your version of Bible history, nor secular history about David's throne in Jerusalem?

 

If you are listening to the orthodox unbelieving Jews, I advise you to be careful with those, because they intend to setup a 'king' there in Jerusalem PRIOR to our Lord Jesus' second coming. But their king will not be The Messiah Who is supposed to come and rule in Jerusalem. They may tell you it is Messiah when the fake comes, but he will not be the True Messiah. Our Heavenly Father warned you about that through His prophet Daniel, and The Christ warned us about it there also, and in His Olivet Discourse, and in His Book of Revelation.