Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Paul, in effect, is saying he has arrived at that "fulfillment" he exhorts all to progress to by his writings, especially Romans 8 which can viewed as the Christian's spiritual "promised land". Try to keep that in mind when you read him __ and John's letters . [1 John 2 in particular.] "All scripture flows together and is not centered in any one chapter, but on God. Try to keep this in mind when you study." You mean like how 2 peter 1: 1-11 and Col.1:1-23 go together? I agree. There is that flowing, isn't there? 2 Peter 1 is addressed to those living in the "promise" who have not yet attained the fulfillment of it. Think of it in the natural as the children of Israel who had the promise but had to be proven before entering it. In the NT spiritual it is the new born who begins his journey culminating in Romans 8 and from that point on, never ending if he remains grounded and settled in the faith. cf Col 1:1-23. "2 Peter 1 instructs one in how to live and mature in Christ so when they do His will, which is their calling and election, they will not question if they are doing His will or not and will not stumble or fall." 2 Peter 1 is addressed to those living in the "promise" who have not yet attained the fulfillment of it in this life as it is the "wilderness experience" all must journey through to be proven. Sorta like, "working out our salvation in fear and trembling"? "Even a baby in Christ can have a far more intimate relationship with Christ than someone who has read scripture all their lives, building one upon another so not to stumble. A relationship derives from the heart, not the actions. The actions can reveal what is in the heart, for we will know them by their fruits, but we cannot know how their relationship with Christ is by their fruits, only if they are His or not.." For one thing the translation should read: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:10 (KJV) All of this from Peter is preparatory for Col. 1:1-23. "The Greek word ptaiste means "ye-should-be-tripping". Call it stumbling or call it falling, makes no difference to me, though stumbling is more like tripping than falling is." Try understanding it as falling from God's grace __ and not "tripping" or "stumbling" in or from it to whatever one is cutoff or hindered from proceeding in his journey. "How can 2 Peter be preparatory for Colossians when it was written after Colossians?" Yes. And one was written in Jerusalem while the other at Colosse. Does that matter given the substance and to whom it was directed, given some were mature and some were immature, Christians?? Intimacy simply means : "Into me He sees". A baby cannot see into the Father until he "learns" the Father, to "know Him". That takes time and testing with the reward being eternally Great. cf John 17:3. "I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy." Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with CHrist" Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? "but we cannot know how their relationship with Christ is by their fruits," Why not? Are we not to be conformed to His image? Again, John 17:3. It is the process of learning Him that God calls the end of His will for all who claim His Name.. What do you know concerning the baptism of Jesus Christ and its purpose? Can you speak of it as something gifted in the afterwards of salvation? "One can see if they are His, but one cannot know the depth of their commitment with Him by their actions." Yes. And? Is commitment the question anyone should have? "Look around at all the false teachers and false prophets who claim the name of Christ and His anointing when they preach and teach." Whose gauge are you using for measuring them as "false"? Are all false? Seems you believe so without exception. I would be careful. "If we are to use their fruit, then their following would provide a reason to believe they are from God. " Do you know their commitment? Do you know their depth? But yet, you judge. "We can know that they are not His," How? Whose "unlearned opinion" speaks against them when not even Jesus spoke against them in His day? but how close or how far they are from Him we cannot know. Only God knows the hearts of men." Then why call them false? Why not just be "wise"? Perhaps "lawless" [as in presuming "intimacy]] would be a better word to use __ but only for some, not all. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never "knew" you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness]". Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Lov'in Jesus . . . Cross Edited June 22, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 2 Peter 1 is addressed to those living in the "promise" who have not yet attained the fulfillment of it. Think of it in the natural as the children of Israel who had the promise but had to be proven before entering it. In the NT spiritual it is the new born who begins his journey culminating in Romans 8 and from that point on, never ending if he remains grounded and settled in the faith. cf Col 1:1-23.2 Peter 1 instructs one in how to live and mature in Christ so when they do His will, which is their calling and election, they will not question if they are doing His will or not and will not stumble or fall. 2 Peter 1 is addressed to those living in the "promise" who have not yet attained the fulfillment of it in this life as it is the "wilderness experience" all must journey through to be proven. Sorta like, "working out our salvation in fear and trembling"?The problem is that we never reach a complete fulfillment while still in this life, which is why we need to continue to work out our salvation. There is no difference between a new christian and a seasoned one ... we are all on the same path, just in different places along the way. You make it sound like there are more than one group within His body, which is not true.The "promise" you keep referring to, thi sis the promise of salvation, is it not? I ask because you never have given a definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Even a baby in Christ can have a far more intimate relationship with Christ than someone who has read scripture all their lives, building one upon another so not to stumble. A relationship derives from the heart, not the actions. The actions can reveal what is in the heart, for we will know them by their fruits, but we cannot know how their relationship with Christ is by their fruits, only if they are His or not.. For one thing the translation should read: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:10 (KJV) All of this from Peter is preparatory for Col. 1:1-23."The Greek word ptaiste means "ye-should-be-tripping". Call it stumbling or call it falling, makes no difference to me, though stumbling is more like tripping than falling is." Try understanding it as falling from God's grace __ and not "tripping" or "stumbling" in or from it to whatever one is cutoff or hindered from proceeding in his journey.Let's stop with you continuing to tell me to "try understanding" or "try to ..." It is condescending and places you in the role of a teacher. Teaching threads by those not in Worthy Ministry are not allowed for good reasons. We can have an adult discussion without trying to demean one or another. I thought you would get the hint when I replied in like manner, but it failed. I should of informed you then instead of being passive aggressive. Sorry about that. Your understanding derives from placing the KJV above the Greek. Look into the Greek to find what was said and meant when it was said. People stumble in their walk. They don't just fall from Grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 How can 2 Peter be preparatory for Colossians when it was written after Colossians? Yes. And one was written in Jerusalem while the other at Colosse. Does that matter given the substance and to whom it was directed, given some were mature and some were immature, Christians?? It does when you say one is in preparatory to the other, inferring that 2 Peter proceeded Colossians in order to set a way for the Colossians, which is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Intimacy simply means : "Into me He sees". A baby cannot see into the Father until he "learns" the Father, to "know Him". That takes time and testing with the reward being eternally Great. cf John 17:3. I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with Christ Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Intimacy simply means : "Into me He sees". A baby cannot see into the Father until he "learns" the Father, to "know Him". That takes time and testing with the reward being eternally Great. cf John 17:3. I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with Christ Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Indeed it is by grace, isn't it? How do we receive such grace? Are you married? Do you have children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 but we cannot know how their relationship with Christ is by their fruits, Why not? Are we not to be conformed to His image? Again, John 17:3. It is the process of learning Him that God calls the end of His will for all who claim His Name.. John 17:1-5 speaks of His salvation given to us, not that we become God to know the hearts of others. This is the terrible mistake people make, believing that due to salvation, we will have every bit of knowledge God has. We don't, and won't, as we live this life. We are not God that we know the hearts of others. He may give us an insight through the Holy Spirit of what a person is going through, as a gift, but we do not know another persons heart. What do you know concerning the baptism of Jesus Christ and its purpose? Can you speak of it as something gifted in the afterwards of salvation? Good topic. Try starting another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 One can see if they are His, but one cannot know the depth of their commitment with Him by their actions. Yes. And? Is commitment the question anyone should have?Personal commitment, yes. Judging another persons walk is between them and God. God may lead us to speak to someone, but He is the judge of another, which is why our relationship with Him is personal, meaning the main focus remain in our relationship with Him. Look around at all the false teachers and false prophets who claim the name of Christ and His anointing when they preach and teach.Whose gauge are you using for measuring them as "false"? Are all false? Seems you believe so without exception. I would be careful.I am very careful when it comes to the truth. What example do those in Berea give us? To search the scripture to see if what someone tells us is true or not. Many do not search to find the truth, they accept what is told to them because it sounds good to them, some because this is what they want to hear and believe, despite it being a lie. If we are to use their fruit, then their following would provide a reason to believe they are from God. Do you know their commitment? Do you know their depth? But yet, you judge.The word judges, not me. Try digging deep into the teachings of false teachers and you will find the errors, as the early church did with their false teachers. By not doing so, it is like the blind leading the blind ... The rest of your questions are just like the others. trying to place your teaching above scripture. Replying in a condescending manner will not go over well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Intimacy simply means : "Into me He sees". A baby cannot see into the Father until he "learns" the Father, to "know Him". That takes time and testing with the reward being eternally Great. cf John 17:3. I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with Christ Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Indeed it is by grace, isn't it? How do we receive such grace? Are you married? Do you have children? You don't need to increase the font or continue to place your words in bold. I may be over 60, but I can still read well enough. I am not sure what your question has to do with the subject, but, yes, married for well over 30 years, have 5 children and 5 grand children. Grace is a free gift to us from God. We cannot "earn" grace. What is your point in asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Intimacy simply means : "Into me He sees". A baby cannot see into the Father until he "learns" the Father, to "know Him". That takes time and testing with the reward being eternally Great. cf John 17:3. I am not sure what dictionary you are using, but that is not the meaning of intimacy. Well, try reading something other than Coptic Greek. . . Does it not mean what the spelling "intimates"? This is very interesting. You quote from the KJV, yet when I use the Greek used to translate the KJV, you bulk at it, as if I am doing something really off, and replying to me with a wink and a grin. You should check your accuracy before commenting. "in·ti·ma·cy 1. the state of being intimate. 2. a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person or group. 3. a close association with or detailed knowledge or deep understanding of a place, subject, period of history, etc.: an intimacy with Japan. 4. an act or expression serving as a token of familiarity, affection, or the like: to allow the intimacy of using first names. 5. an amorously familiar act; liberty. A relationship with Christ is based on the second meaning: a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with Christ Yes! And?? Is it not purposed/intended by God to work both ways? ____ "Into me He sees" and "Into Him I see"? Is this not the intent by God through Jesus Christ of John 17:3? That may be how you explain the way you see it, but it is not what the word means. You are trying to impart your belief into a word, giving it a different definition. God sees all no matter what. We don't. It is only by His grace that we receive insight into Him, through the relationship. Once again, you are trying to teach your belief. Please be more careful on how you address definitions. Indeed it is by grace, isn't it? How do we receive such grace? Are you married? Do you have children? You don't need to increase the font or continue to place your words in bold. I may be over 60, but I can still read well enough. I am not sure what your question has to do with the subject, but, yes, married for well over 30 years, have 5 children and 5 grand children. Grace is a free gift to us from God. We cannot "earn" grace. What is your point in asking? Grace is a promise. More later. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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