The City of Babylon.

[Spock]

Time out.....

I just want to thank you two for this exchange. Rarely do I laugh out loud while reading something. This is one of those times. Thanks fellows.

Ok, you may continue.

 

It is laughable, isn't it?

Yes it is.

Hey Salty, I actually think maybe you need to read his post 49. It sounds like he provided a pretty good rebuttal for you to ponder.

Now, back to your post 46, I already rebutted your 11 Revelation references to great city, but I see you quoted Matthew 24:23-26. Here it is:

23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

You said this has Jerusalem (ac's base city) written all over it. Man, I do not see that at all. I really feel you are doing some major erroneous inferencing here and it just is illogical to me.

On top of that, God loves Jerusalem and satan can only do so much with limitations attached.

Shiloh said it better than me and provided detail that I think you really should respond to if you want to keep this going.

FYI, it's no skin off my back if you hold fast to Jerusalem, but I can tell, you desire to be accurate, so I think maybe you should allow yourself to be a wee bit more open on this one and continue your dialog with brother Shiloh.

Shalom bro,

Spock out

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

I would like to answer in detail your points of #46 (though I do believe shiloh357 had excellent points)

 

1. The Book of Daniel does involve Jerusalem in a fallen worship state (as you said) but does not say it is Babylon. It does show in Dan. 11 that the  `despicable` king, is the king of the North & that is where his domain is till the end when he goes to Jerusalem.

 

2. You were pointing out `the great city,` phrase had to be only Jerusalem. Well God`s word says different -

 

`Now the great city  (Jerusalem Rev. 11: 8) was divided into three parts, & the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.` (Rev. 16: 19)

 

Thus we see 2 distinct `great cities` - Jerusalem & Babylon.l

 

 

3. Now concerning God being `married` to Israel / Jerusalem, well He was, but is now `divorced` from it, that is why He remarries the `wife.` (Rev.19: 7)

 

`And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away & given her a writ of divorce....`  (Jer. 3: 8  & Isa. 50: 1)

 

 

4. False king & true king - very true.

 

 

5. Yes the pseudo-Christ does set himself up in Jerusalem`s temple but only after his centre, Babylon has been destroyed. Remember when Christ comes to the Mount of Olives He goes across the valley of Jehoshaphat & enters the temple by the eastern gate. How could He go there if it was all demolished, burned & thrown into the sea as God`s word tells us of Babylon - the Babylon city in Iraq. (Just as Shiloh 357 explained so well to you.)

 

And finally I am very pleased to be able to come on this forum & let people have a detailed look at God`s word & not just be `tossed to & fro,` by opinions, speculations & conjecture.

 

1. The Book of Daniel doesn't have to say "Babylon" in order to point to Jerusalem as the Babylon harlot "great city" of Revelation. In Isaiah 1:10 when God was speaking to the rulers in Jerusalem He called them rulers of Sodom and people of Gomarrah. Yet we know He was using those as a spiritual symbol for how those in Jerusalem had fallen away from Him in that time, just as it is in Rev.11:8 again with making it plain that Jerusalem is the subject. Thus Christ used Babylon in His Revelation as a symbolic name for Jerusalem in a state of false worship for the end. And what? many other Bible Scriptures like 2 Thess.2:4 and Matt.24:23-26 doesn't point to that also? Yes, of course it does.

 

The "vile person" of Dan.11:21 is not that king of the north. The "vile person" comes in after the raiser of taxes, and then obtains the kingdom by peace and flatteries. That "vile person" is who makes that "league" of Dan.11:23, which is the seven years covenant or pact of Dan.9:27.

 

2. I don't see anything you've disproved by that Rev.16:19 Scripture. If anything, you've pointed out another clue that's in Rev.11 which shows the last days Babylon harlot is Jerusalem. How? Because the subject events written there in Rev.11 during the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period to the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe period are events that occur in JERUSALEM. That's where John saw that temple at the start of the Rev.11 chapter; it's where God's two witnesses will appear and prophesy against the beast for 1260 days. Rev.11:8 even pointed directly to Jerusalem by declaring that's where Christ was crucified, and note that verse used that label of "great city" also...

 

Rev 11:8

8    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

(KJV)

 

Right there in Rev.11 Christ established Jerusalem "the great city" in a fallen state with calling it in the spiritual sense "Sodom and Egypt". No big surprise that in Rev.16 He uses Babylon as the same kind of spiritual metaphor for Jerusalem as the "great city".

 

 

3. It was the ten tribed "house of Israel" that God gave a bill of divorce to, not the "house of Judah". One must pay attention to God referring to Judah as sister to Israel in that verse, and understand what Biblical timing that was in Jeremiah's days, for Israel had already been long before split into two kingdoms with the ten tribes already removed captive to Assyria ("sent her away"). This is why the ten tribes of Israel were scattered to lose their heritage as Israelites, while the house of Judah did not lose their heritage as part of God's people.

 

So God did not divorce Jerusalem. The idea of His wife and bride is a very deep metaphor (see Isaiah 54). It's application overlaps as a metaphor between Jerusalem and His saints. Here in Rev.21:9-10 is revealed that Jerusalem is The Lamb's wife... and bride:

Rev 21:9-10

9    And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10    And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

(KJV)

 

 

4. we agree, that's good.

 

 

5.  So, you think if a physical temple is built in the last days by the orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem, that's the same temple Jesus will enter after His return??? I strongly disagree if that's your meaning.

 

Christ is Who will build the temple per Zech.6, not man. The temple layout in Ezekiel 40 forward is the temple Christ Jesus will build; it's the same kind of vision of the new Jerusalem Apostle John was shown in Rev.21-22. The temple of Rev.11:1-2 which the orthodox Jews will build for the last days of this present world will be destroyed on the day of Christ's coming. He foretold us that in the first verses of Matt.24 and Mark 13, because some of the old foundation stones of Herod's temple (i.e., the second temple modified) are still... standing in Jerusalem today. Jesus said not one stone will standing on top of another there in Jerusalem, and that was not fully accomplished by Titus in 70 A.D., otherwise orthodox Jews today wouldn't even have a Wailing Wall to pray next to.

 

And I can understand why our Lord Jesus will not set foot in a temple built by man under authority of the coming Antichrist in prep for the tribulation time of idol worship!

[Spock]

Shiloh,

 

I will provide you with these two links if you are interested in knowing why I am open to the possibility of USA/NYC being Babylon in Rev 18. This is just two of many links that have impressed me.

 

http://www.jesuschrist.com/908/comment-page-2/#comment-9405

 

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/america_babylon.htm

[Salty]

My words in BLUE -

 

 

 

Yes it is.

Hey Salty, I actually think maybe you need to read his post 49. It sounds like he provided a pretty good rebuttal for you to ponder.

 

I don't see much his post has to offer, simply because we all have opinions about Jerusalem, and I have mine also which is very much the same as your's probably, but what God's Word reveals outweighs our opinions on what we feel about Jerusalem. It's what our Heavenly Father and His Son feels about Jerusalem per His Word that matters. Yet I still covered what he was saying, including the subject at the very end where he quoted a lot of Scripture to try and use as back up, which it really did not.

 

Would God destroy the city of Jerusalem where He has chosen to put His Name forever? Let's see, He's already done just that before for sure, the time of Nebuchadnezzar sacking Jerusalem, and then the Romans in 70 A.D., then the Turks, etc. With the time of Nebuchadnezzar we know why He did it then, because of how the "house of Judah" had fallen away from Him. We know why He allowed the Romans to do it too, because the Jews rejected His Kingdom through His Son at His first coming. And as of THIS day today, the majority of His people in Jerusalem still reject His Son Whom He sent, as they still treat our Lord Jesus as a seditionist come to overthrow, and not as The Son of God.

 

So none of God's people should feel like they can go against His Will regarding Jerusalem for the end, because He will 'plant' His New Jerusalem that is free there in final as He declared. It's just not going to be the Jerusalem of today that's still in bondage. So which Jerusalem had you rather be a part of, the one today that's in bondage, or the New Jerusalem God is going to bring out of Heaven to this earth? I chose the latter.

Now, back to your post 46, I already rebutted your 11 Revelation references to great city, but I see you quoted Matthew 24:23-26. Here it is:

23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

You said this has Jerusalem (ac's base city) written all over it. Man, I do not see that at all. I really feel you are doing some major erroneous inferencing here and it just is illogical to me.

 

What city was Christ and His disciples looking at while upon the Mount of Olives when He gave that prophecy of the coming pseudo-Christ? It was Jerusalem. What city was He talking about with the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from Daniel? Jerusalem. What city was the Book of Daniel talking about with the placing of that abomination of desolation idol in the temple? Jerusalem. Where did Apostle Paul show that false one comes to sit in "the temple of God" and proclaim himself as God which directly parallels the Book of Daniel and what Christ warned there in Matt.24:23-26 also? Jerusalem. Where is that temple of Rev.11:1-2 those will worship in while the court is to be left for the Gentiles who will tread upon the holy city for 42 months? Jerusalem. Who also reigns over the world and makes war with the saints for 42 months? The dragon of Rev.13.

 

Sorry, I don't have to have a lead weight to fall on me to get the picture Christ made that's it's about Jerusalem in the end of days.

 

On top of that, God loves Jerusalem and satan can only do so much with limitations attached.

 

That's opinion, not a Scripture proof. We cannot limit our Heavenly Father in saying He can't do this or that with Jerusalem, as I've already shown you He has allowed and... caused... Jerusalem to fall many times already because of false worship.

Shiloh said it better than me and provided detail that I think you really should respond to if you want to keep this going.

 

I've already responded, as he has failed to address the many Scripture evidences I've given in my posts, even as you yourself have not addressed them all either. Marilyn so far is the only one that has covered more of them.

 

And it sounds like you're trying to give me an ultimatum with that last statement of yours. Just because you side more with Shiloh on this matter would you really stoop to that kind of ultimatum dare?

FYI, it's no skin off my back if you hold fast to Jerusalem, but I can tell, you desire to be accurate, so I think maybe you should allow yourself to be a wee bit more open on this one and continue your dialog with brother Shiloh.
 

 

Brother, does it matter whether you believe me or not? You're not accountable to me, nor I to you. If Shiloh doesn't want to address what I've covered, then fine. I don't care one way or the other whether he believes what I have to say on the subject. As for being more 'open', that's a different matter, because it's like saying I have to agree with you et all on this matter just to converse about it, when no, I actually do not have to agree. So if you want to make that a requirement or rule to be able to converse with you on it, then that's your choice, not mine.

 

[Salty]

Hi all,

 

I have so enjoyed reading all the comments. It has been an exciting debate. I have had to refrain myself from commenting earlier as I have been preparing for my hubby`s 60th, which we had last night with a great gathering. But I`m here now excited to bring more of God`s word to the discussion.

 

Good points kwikphilly, & Spock as usual giving as much as he gets in humour & hugs. Salty...well you certainly have some strong views but as yet the discussion is not over. And inchrist & shiloh357 well thought out biblical points & it`s so good to hear those as there is so much confusion on these threads where people seemed to be `tossed to and fro.`  

 

It`s probably late at night over your way (USA & UK) so I`ve plenty of time to write.

 

You must be referring to much, much earlier posts by Shiloh, because I've not seen much from him yet. Most of what I read from him are stuff like, 'Your position is weak', 'you're in error', and lot of opinion. So don't you think you're showing a bit of bias just because you and he agree on the same position with this subject?

 

Shiloh said:

"Some say Babylon is Jerusalem,  But the angel refers to Babylon on the Euphrates throughout chapters 17-18.  Cross reference Rev.17:1 with Jer. 51:13; 17:2, 4 with Jeremiah 51:7:; 18:7  with Is. 47:5; 18:2 with Is. 13:21 and Jer. 51:8; 18:4 with Jer. 50:15 and 51:24; 18:21 with Jer. 51:63:64."

 

Or maybe you and Spock think he did an overwhelming thing with posting all those Scripture references to try and show it's not about Jerusalem? The matter with Euphrates as used in Revelation is symbolic, just as Babylon is also symbolically used... for Jerusalem. In God's Word the Euphrates river has always been the northern border between God's people and His enemies. Same principle in Revelation, as his enemies are shown crossing that Euphrates and coming to power in Jerusalem (i.e., the dragon, and Gentiles treading the holy city for 42 months). Rev.9 is not linking geographical Babylon with that mention of the Euphrates like Shiloh has tried to represent. Instead, it is representing the loosing of the four angels bound at Euphrates, and the full working of Christ's enemies upon the whole world for the end.

[Guest shiloh357]

Would God destroy the city of Jerusalem where He has chosen to put His Name forever? Let's see, He's already done just that before for sure, the time of Nebuchadnezzar sacking Jerusalem, and then the Romans in 70 A.D., then the Turks, etc. With the time of Nebuchadnezzar we know why He did it then, because of how the "house of Judah" had fallen away from Him. We know why He allowed the Romans to do it too, because the Jews rejected His Kingdom through His Son at His first coming. And as of THIS day today, the majority of His people in Jerusalem still reject His Son Whom He sent, as they still treat our Lord Jesus as a seditionist come to overthrow, and not as The Son of God.

 

 

The difference being that none of those judgments were full and final.  The Jews were not judged to point that redemption was no longer possible.  God did destroy Jerusalem and God also rebuilt it.   God has promised to restore the Jews to their land permanently.

 

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.(Amo 9:14-15)

 

We know from other Bible prophecies that are consonant with Amos' prophecy that this includes the the rebuilding and inhabiting of Jerusalem

 

Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.

(Jer 32:44)

 

Cross reference with (Jer. 32:37; 33:7,11, 26)  There is plenty of evidence biblically that Jerusalem is not going to be destroyed.  God's promise is that He will bring them back to their Land in the last days and rebuild Jerusalem and this will be a permanent act on God's part.   These prophecies are in the process of being fulfilled in our day.

 

 

Another passage that speaks to this issue is the prophecy of Zechariah 14.  It is a description of the war of Armageddon and the second coming of Jesus when Jesus rescues Jerusalem.  Notice what it says will happen AFTER the war of Armageddon

 

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

(Zec 14:9-11)

 

And

 

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

(Zec 14:16-17)

 

Babylon is destroyed just before the second coming of Jesus.  Yet Zechariah tells us that when Jesus returns, He will set his foot on the Mt. of Olives and that He will rescue Jerusalem from the nations gathered to destroy Jerusalem.  and then He gives us a glimpse into the millennial reign in verses 16-17.   So we have a Jerusalem that is still on the earth.   This not the New Jerusalem, that will come down later.  It is the current city of Jerusalem that Jesus will rescue.

 

So when we examine the whole of Bible prophecy and not just the book of Revelation, we see that Jerusalem is NOT going to be destroyed.   And that simply saying that it is called "the great city" qualifies it as Babylon is a beggardly argument not based on whole counsel of Scripture on the matter.

 

 

What city was Christ and His disciples looking at while upon the Mount of Olives when He gave that prophecy of the coming pseudo-Christ? It was Jerusalem. What city was He talking about with the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from Daniel? Jerusalem. What city was the Book of Daniel talking about with the placing of that abomination of desolation idol in the temple? Jerusalem. Where did Apostle Paul show that false one comes to sit in "the temple of God" and proclaim himself as God which directly parallels the Book of Daniel and what Christ warned there in Matt.24:23-26 also? Jerusalem. Where is that temple of Rev.11:1-2 those will worship in while the court is to be left for the Gentiles who will tread upon the holy city for 42 months? Jerusalem. Who also reigns over the world and makes war with the saints for 42 months? The dragon of Rev.13.

 

Sorry, I don't have to have a lead weight to fall on me to get the picture Christ made that's it's about Jerusalem in the end of days.

 

None of those references refer to Jerusalem as Babylon. Nothing you describe here makes Jerusalem the end time "Babylon.'  Babylon described in Revelation is a worldwide center of commerce and there are NO prophecies of Jerusalem being a center of world commerce or an international shipping capital or political superpower.   There is nothing prophesied about Jerusalem being loved by the nations.

 

In Bible prophecy, Jerusalem is a burden to the world.  The world would not mourn Jerusalem's fall.  The world is trying to destroy Jerusalem at the war of Armageddon.

 

There is just too much evidence against Jerusalem being Babylon for your claim to be credible.

[Spock]

Salty.

 

I have to be honest with you bro, these two responses of yours are not exactly received in love nor encouraging. 

 

1. And it sounds like you're trying to give me an ultimatum with that last statement of yours. Just because you side more with Shiloh on this matter would you really stoop to that kind of ultimatum dare?

FYI, it's no skin off my back if you hold fast to Jerusalem, but I can tell, you desire to be accurate, so I think maybe you should allow yourself to be a wee bit more open on this one and continue your dialog with brother Shiloh.
 

 

2. Brother, does it matter whether you believe me or not? You're not accountable to me, nor I to you. If Shiloh doesn't want to address what I've covered, then fine. I don't care one way or the other whether he believes what I have to say on the subject. As for being more 'open', that's a different matter, because it's like saying I have to agree with you et all on this matter just to converse about it, when no, I actually do not have to agree. So if you want to make that a requirement or rule to be able to converse with you on it, then that's your choice, not mine.

 

Not only is the tone all wrong, but you also did not even interpret them correctly. Not sure why not. I did not give you an ultimatum and no, you don't have to agree. I never said you had to.

 

This is a discussion forum in which I presume many of us are attempting to seek wisdom and truth to understand God's mind and heart better.  I don't know if you believe you have no need to learn from us because you already know it all, but it sure sounds like you are putting up walls making it hard to discuss this amicably.

 

Are you that sure Jerusalem is Babylon and there is nothing we can say through God's word, or are you OPEN to receive other perspectives and scripture passages that maybe you did not consider?

 

Me personally, I'm ALWAYS open to listen to what other people want to show me, especially regarding something as nebulous as prophecy. Even here, I'm listening to your argument for Jerusalem being Babylon. So far I find your argument wanting, but I'm still listening.

 

Anyhow, I hope we can all glorify the Lord and converse in love and humility from here on out.  Agree?

 

Again, my purpose is not to make you agree with me, but rather to discuss the scriptures to see if we can figure out what God is saying.

 

Spock out

[Marilyn C]

Very good, inchrist,

 

I was going to post that same scripture. Spot on. I tell you I am so glad there are a few of us who see this truth & it so helps the discussion to have a few voices bringing all of God`s word to bear upon the topic. So thankful to you friend in Christ.

[Salty]

My words in BLUE -

 

 

Would God destroy the city of Jerusalem where He has chosen to put His Name forever? Let's see, He's already done just that before for sure, the time of Nebuchadnezzar sacking Jerusalem, and then the Romans in 70 A.D., then the Turks, etc. With the time of Nebuchadnezzar we know why He did it then, because of how the "house of Judah" had fallen away from Him. We know why He allowed the Romans to do it too, because the Jews rejected His Kingdom through His Son at His first coming. And as of THIS day today, the majority of His people in Jerusalem still reject His Son Whom He sent, as they still treat our Lord Jesus as a seditionist come to overthrow, and not as The Son of God.

 

 

The difference being that none of those judgments were full and final.  The Jews were not judged to point that redemption was no longer possible.  God did destroy Jerusalem and God also rebuilt it.   God has promised to restore the Jews to their land permanently.

 

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.(Amo 9:14-15)

 

What I referred to within this subject about Jerusalem being symbolic Babylon in Revelation, and God bringing the king of Babylon and Titus to destroy Jerusalem in past history, has nothing to do with this subject you bring up. I well know per Scripture that God is going to save His people that repent and come to Christ Jesus. But that event, and the one you quote from Amos 9 there is not until after Christ's return. The ten lost tribes are to be re-joined with Judah then too, per Amos 9:9 and Hosea 1 and Ezekiel 37.
 

 

We know from other Bible prophecies that are consonant with Amos' prophecy that this includes the the rebuilding and inhabiting of Jerusalem

 

Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.
(Jer 32:44)

 

Cross reference with (Jer. 32:37; 33:7,11, 26)  There is plenty of evidence biblically that Jerusalem is not going to be destroyed.  God's promise is that He will bring them back to their Land in the last days and rebuild Jerusalem and this will be a permanent act on God's part.   These prophecies are in the process of being fulfilled in our day.

 

The timing of that Jer.32:37-44 "captivity" by God of His people is for the time of Christ's second coming, that's what those OT gathering of Israel Scriptures are about. That is not happening yet today, because the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) of Ezekiel 37 has not happened. Those trying to say those type return Scriptures are happening already today are way too early, because God promised the return of all the tribes, not just those of the "house of Judah" (the Jews). So in reality today, the main ones returning are scattered remnants of the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, along with foreigners that became religious Jews back in history). Even Jewish scholars have admitted the return of the ten lost tribes in final which marks that future fulfillment of Scripture like Jer.32:37-44.

 

As a believer on Christ Jesus, what is the main difference in belief today between Christ's Church and the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem (which are the majority there)? The majority of them will continue to reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah up until the day of His coming, for that prophecy is written too, when the blindness God put upon them ("Israel in part") is removed at Christ's appearing. That is how the "abomination of desolation", an idol, which Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel will be setup there in Jerusalem for the end of days. So Jerusalem is not yet cleansed and made whole today, it has one final siege and fall to false worship left per Bible prophecy, which will fulfill the battle of Armageddon when Jesus returns there to fight with His enemies that will have taken it over.

 

 

Another passage that speaks to this issue is the prophecy of Zechariah 14.  It is a description of the war of Armageddon and the second coming of Jesus when Jesus rescues Jerusalem.  Notice what it says will happen AFTER the war of Armageddon

 

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
(Zec 14:9-11)
 

Yes! And like you say, that is for AFTER Christ's second coming to Jerusalem on earth. That is when Jerusalem will be "safely inhabited". It is not for today's Jerusalem though, and definitely will not be when the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem build another temple there in the near future, and start up the Old Covenant animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood again; that's not even to mention the "abomination of desolation" event which will be a worse abomination to God, and then Satan's armies out of the northern quarters coming upon Israel on the last day of this world.

 

We should especially note that Christ Jesus was made the Perfect Sacrifice for all sin. Doing animal sacrifices again is a rejection of Christ Jesus as God's Promised Saviour. So how is that NOT... a sign of false worship when those orthodox unbelieving Jews do that? When the Antichrist comes and replaces himself and his idol in that false worship role, that will justify Christ flattening that area of Jerusalem like the Zech.14 Scripture also shows.

 

 

And

 

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
(Zec 14:16-17)

 

That's included with the subject of the previous Zech.14 verse, so I covered that with the above. Once again, that's to occur AFTER... Christ's return.

 

Babylon is destroyed just before the second coming of Jesus.  Yet Zechariah tells us that when Jesus returns, He will set his foot on the Mt. of Olives and that He will rescue Jerusalem from the nations gathered to destroy Jerusalem.  and then He gives us a glimpse into the millennial reign in verses 16-17.   So we have a Jerusalem that is still on the earth.   This not the New Jerusalem, that will come down later.  It is the current city of Jerusalem that Jesus will rescue.

 

This earth won't be destroyed, but man's works on this earth will be, which is the subject of 2 Pet.3:10 about God's consuming fire in comparison to God's previous destructions upon the earth by water, which Peter covered there also. This is why our Lord Jesus said in Matt.24:2 there literally won't be one stone on top of another there that won't be thrown down. Anyone reading the Ezekiel 40 through 48 chapters should easily pick up on the difference of the holy city AFTER... Christ's return linked to the New Jerusalem, because that New Jerusalem is what comes down out of Heaven from God to that spot where today's Jerusalem is (Rev.21).

 

The Ezekiel 40 forward layout reveals quite a huge difference between the coming New Jerusalem out of Heaven vs. the one on earth today. See Zech.14:10 about the land there from Geba (Jeba) northeast of Jerusalem to Rimmon south of Jerusalem being turned into a plain. It's talking about major earth changes in that area, just as the Ezek.40 forward Scriptures reveal earth changes in that area also.See also Rev.11:13 about the great earthquake to occur in that city, which that city is a continuation of the "great city" declared in Rev.11:8 (i.e., Jerusalem). A tenth of the city will fall in that earthquake, so guess just which part that would be per the end time Jerusalem event of the "abomination of desolation" that is to be setup there per the Book of Daniel?

 

 

So when we examine the whole of Bible prophecy and not just the book of Revelation, we see that Jerusalem is NOT going to be destroyed.   And that simply saying that it is called "the great city" qualifies it as Babylon is a beggardly argument not based on whole counsel of Scripture on the matter.

 

I refer you to my previous paragraphs, which shows portions of the city of Jerusalem will... be directly affected by the great earthquake of Rev.11:13, which is the same great earthquake of Zech.14  when Jesus returns on the Day of The LORD.

 

 

 

What city was Christ and His disciples looking at while upon the Mount of Olives when He gave that prophecy of the coming pseudo-Christ? It was Jerusalem. What city was He talking about with the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from Daniel? Jerusalem. What city was the Book of Daniel talking about with the placing of that abomination of desolation idol in the temple? Jerusalem. Where did Apostle Paul show that false one comes to sit in "the temple of God" and proclaim himself as God which directly parallels the Book of Daniel and what Christ warned there in Matt.24:23-26 also? Jerusalem. Where is that temple of Rev.11:1-2 those will worship in while the court is to be left for the Gentiles who will tread upon the holy city for 42 months? Jerusalem. Who also reigns over the world and makes war with the saints for 42 months? The dragon of Rev.13.

 

Sorry, I don't have to have a lead weight to fall on me to get the picture Christ made that's it's about Jerusalem in the end of days.

 

 

None of those references refer to Jerusalem as Babylon. Nothing you describe here makes Jerusalem the end time "Babylon.'  Babylon described in Revelation is a worldwide center of commerce and there are NO prophecies of Jerusalem being a center of world commerce or an international shipping capital or political superpower.   There is nothing prophesied about Jerusalem being loved by the nations.

 

Oh yes they do refer to Jerusalem, directly even.

Dan 9:24
24    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)
 

That prophecy given Daniel about his people and the holy city (Jerusalem) involves the "abomination of desolation" the false one coming will setup there, emphatically. I don't know why you would deny that Daniel prophecy about Jerusalem for the last days, which continues the subject all the way to the end of the Book of Daniel. With the beasts of Rev.13, Jesus pointed directly back to this Daniel 70 weeks prophecy fulfillment for Jerusalem in the end of days, just as He did in His Olivet Discourse when quoting the "abomination of desolation" being setup there. Not just that, but around 165 B.C. one named Antiochus IV took Jerusalem, went into the temple, sacrificed swine in it desolating the altar, and then setup an idol in Zeus worship, desolating the whole, serving as a blueprint for the coming "vile person" of Dan.11 and the placing of the abomination that makes desolate. Yet Jesus around 200 years laters after Antiochus IV had long been dead quoted the Book of Daniel about the coming "abomination of desolation" event in Jerusalem, showing it is still future, by that revealing Antiochus only served as an example.

 

Now concerning the idea of world commerce and Jerusalem, the event timing of that is very important. In Dan.8, the "king of fierce countenance", which is the same king ("little horn") that comes up from among the ten horns of Dan.7, we're shown that craft will prosper by his hand, and by peace he will destroy many. That's involving the time when the Antichrist appears on earth in Jerusalem to setup the "abomination of desolation" idol worship per Daniel. It's the event of the latter part of Rev.13 about the "another beast" and his mark for buying and selling, and the "image of the beast" he will setup in false idol worship, i.e, the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel. Has that false one showed up there yet to place the abomination of desolation today? No, it's still in our near future. THAT... will be when those issues of commerce applied to Jerusalem will fit, because Jerusalem will be the ruling city over all nations, for the Antichrist is coming as king-messiah, to mimic Christ's Role as King of kings, and Lord of lords.

 

 

In Bible prophecy, Jerusalem is a burden to the world.  The world would not mourn Jerusalem's fall.  The world is trying to destroy Jerusalem at the war of Armageddon.

 

There is just too much evidence against Jerusalem being Babylon for your claim to be credible.

 

Only for right now is Jerusalem seen as a burden upon nations because of the settling question of world peace by those who claim her, both the Palestinians and Jews. But that strategy has been orchestrated by globalist political factions behind globalist groups like the U.N. There's a reason why the Israeli general Moshe Dyan agreed to give up part of the city of Jerusalem per U.N. leanings to the Arabs after the Israelis had taken it all back in the '67 war (same with later give aways of the lands of Israel the U.N. has caused, which lands wholly belong to Israel from our Heavenly Father). It's all in order to stir hatred between both factions against each other in order to create a greater contrast when the false messiah shows up to heal it. And heal it the coming Antichrist false king-messiah will do, for the majority of the world will believe on him and worship him in place of God as written. That is when the opposite time of 'wars and rumours of wars' will occur, the time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will be declaring, the world peace idea of the globalists, craft prospering upon the earth, chicken in every pot as long as you bow in worship to that coming fake king-messiah that will sit in the temple in Jerusalem.

 

Therein is another one of the clues that Christ's Revelation is treating Jerusalem symbolically as Babylon for the end, when that false king-messiah shows up there in Jerusalem and places the "abomination of desolation" idol of Daniel. In Rev.13 the "another beast" sets up an idol image of the beast for all to bow in worship to. That is the same... kind of idol worship event that the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar did in the days of Daniel and the captivity of Judah to Babylon for 70 years. This is another reason why the Book of Daniel has so many overlays with the end time events in Christ's Revelation.

 

 

[Salty]

Very good, inchrist,

 

I was going to post that same scripture. Spot on. I tell you I am so glad there are a few of us who see this truth & it so helps the discussion to have a few voices bringing all of God`s word to bear upon the topic. So thankful to you friend in Christ.

 

IF... the geographical area of Babylonia ever becomes the controlling city by the coming fake king-messiah, then I will have to eat my words. However, it still will not align with the many Scriptures in the Book of Daniel that reveal Jerusalem emphatically is where the "abomination of desolation" idol will be setup for false worship.