Scripture threatens loss of salvation

[OneLight]

 

... this is a discussion forum, not a platform to teach.  It would be best if you approach this in a different light.

 

What I post is certainly open to discussion by everyone.

However, this only works properly if members actually understand what other members are saying.

 

 

Than perhaps you should be posting in a manner that looks like a discussion and not teaching.  So you are clear on this, those who are not part of the Ministry are not allowed to teach.  I hope you understand what I am saying.

[Persuaded]

Alright, just this one, although I see you've got a 5 page thread elsewhere, and your list remains the same, so I'm guessing your views are entrenched!!

 

So I don't get accused of cherry picking the easiest one, I'll just go with the first, from Mat 5.

 

First, an earlier verse, so you can see the kind of things Jesus is talking about:

[Mat 5:20 KJV] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I submit that 99.9% of christians do not have righteousness of their own that exceeds that of the pharisees, who were professional, diligent law keepers. Is this truly the way to the kingdom? -of course not. Paul explains that the purpose of the law was to show us that we are inadequate to keep the law: [Rom 3:19 KJV] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

In Jesus' time, the leaders of the Jews thought they were doing a good job keeping the law, and were missing the lesson that the law was sent to teach. That's what this whole passage is conveying, that the law goes beyond outward actions and covers your heart as well. If you have clean hands and a filthy heart, you are just as guilty as the one who is outwardly sinful.

 

[Mat 5:27 KJV] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

[Mat 5:28 KJV] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

[Mat 5:29 KJV] And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

[Mat 5:30 KJV] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

This whole passage explains God's preferred method of salvation. This sounds heretical, but there are really two methods to get to heaven. Plan B is the cross, where you let Jesus' substitutionary sacrifice cover your sins. But the better way is to live a sinless life, from birth to death, never having an incorrect action or thought, and when you die you can go to heaven and tell God to move over, cause now there's two of us. I hope you see I'm being flippant, but this is the tone of the whole sermon on the mount, to show those that had confidence in their flesh that they had no basis for such confidence.

 

The example of plucking out your eye/cutting off your hand is meant to be repugnant and repulsive, to show how God abhors sin, and how important it is to focus on entering the kingdom.

 

This lesson was taught before the cross was in view, while the kingdom was still being offered to the Jews, while Jesus was still showing himself to be their messiah.

 

It's easy to build spurious doctrine from verses in isolation, but look at the whole passage (or the rest of the NT!) and see what the point of the message is. It is not saying that a believer who has had his sins forgiven by the cross will have that forgiveness rescinded by a new sin.

 

How many sins had you yet to commit when Jesus died? May I suggest, "ALL OF THEM." And yet, He STILL chose you before the foundation of the world. Some of us are especially grateful that He did, because if He hadn't He might be tempted to change His mind.

 

(that's more tongue in cheek)!

[other one]

Do Any Of These Verses Threaten The Loss Of Anyone's Salvation?

    ******snip out verses******

 

1 Cor 5:1-6
5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
NASB

 

 

 

short answer....    "NO"

[other one]

 

Loss? -no.

Lots of reward opportunities in that list, though!

 

Did thou readest them?

Did thou notest there was nothing said about rewards in any of them?

 

aaaawwwwww  are you really going to talk old English to us.......     really????

[Wildstar]

All of the verses are warnings to do the right thing or lose your life (salvation)

[Wildstar]

 

 

Never ignore anything. I know Whom my faith is ground upon. He is perfectly capable to keep me safe. Thank you, Jesus!

 

Yes, of course, you are safe and secure ... I have NO doubts about it.

 

However, alas, you have made the usual female error, which I have noticed in all Christian forums!

Dis thread is NOT about YOU ... 'tis about other people ... Is it possible for THEM to lose THEIR salvation?

Hello!

 

 

FEMALE ERROR??????????????????????????????

 

No one can lose one's salvation by his faith in Jesus Christ. It is a gift from God!

 

Ephesians 4:30 (NLT)

And do not bring sorrow to God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live. Remember, he has identified you as his own,guaranteeing that you will be saved on the day of redemption.

 

Jude 1:24 (NLT)

Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault.

 

Romans 8:38-39 (NLT)

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. ³⁹ No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

 

I don't know about you, but when the Lord guarantees me something, I can rest in that thing as being MINE!

 

Wouldn't this be cherry picking?  Although it shows that God is able to keep us from falling, in the case of Galatians was he unable?  Or what about the letters to the churches in revelations?  Let us review them.

 

Galatians 3:1-4

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.  I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?  Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain?

 

He is writing them a letter because they took up the view of circumcision.  Obviously they were Christ born as it says "beginning by means of the Spirit" and their current state "Are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"  Showing they arent enduring in the faith.  Look they still believe in Jesus Christ.  They still love him, they probably still show love to their neighbors and do everything else right, except the circumcision thing.  Their faiths are absolutely worthless at this point if they really think being circumcised makes you a man of God.

 

And read any of the letters to the churches in revelations.  They all say to repent and endure and then they will be rewarded

 

example "Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

[Wildstar]

 

 

I know what it means to be in Christ.

Even those who do not, yet are saved by grace through their faith in Jesus, and walk with Christ falteringly, do not miss out on the Rapture. Whether believers all have that same level of confidence in Him matters not in the end, for we will all be caught up with Him when He calls His precious Bride. Salvation is in Christ and not in our behavior---many Christians are weak and young, spiritually, but the Father knows who are His.

The Shepherd knows His sheep and calls them by name.

 

Yes, congratulations, this is the traditional feel-good message taught in the Laodicean churches today!

It places NO obligation on the believer to put away sin, and etc. ... because it is a feel-good message.

Think I said that already.

 

 

That is not the truth. We are called to repentance, and to renew our minds (Romans 12:2) and to submit to Christ who cleanses us by the washing of the water of the word. (Ephesians 5:26)

 

Who says we aren't?

 

Born again Christians can be found at all points of sanctification---on their own walk with Jesus. H has them firmly in His grip. Are you judging others for salvation? That is not your job.

 

if I may chime in.  You said "Christians can be found at all points of sanctification" but where does it say that Christians are progressively sanctified?  From what I read it shows full sanctification or no sanctification.

 

Example:  " Then He said, 'Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second.' By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. " 

 

I don't think Jesus is a feel good message.  Aarons sons for example offered strange fire to God.  They believed in God but came to him in their own way instead of how the bible states.  They were consumed by the fire of God and I think its safe to say their souls were lost.   

Edited July 11, 2014 by Wildstar

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

I know what it means to be in Christ.

Even those who do not, yet are saved by grace through their faith in Jesus, and walk with Christ falteringly, do not miss out on the Rapture. Whether believers all have that same level of confidence in Him matters not in the end, for we will all be caught up with Him when He calls His precious Bride. Salvation is in Christ and not in our behavior---many Christians are weak and young, spiritually, but the Father knows who are His.

The Shepherd knows His sheep and calls them by name.

 

Yes, congratulations, this is the traditional feel-good message taught in the Laodicean churches today!

It places NO obligation on the believer to put away sin, and etc. ... because it is a feel-good message.

Think I said that already.

 

 

That is not the truth. We are called to repentance, and to renew our minds (Romans 12:2) and to submit to Christ who cleanses us by the washing of the water of the word. (Ephesians 5:26)

 

Who says we aren't?

 

Born again Christians can be found at all points of sanctification---on their own walk with Jesus. H has them firmly in His grip. Are you judging others for salvation? That is not your job.

 

if I may chime in.  You said "Christians can be found at all points of sanctification" but where does it say that Christians are progressively sanctified?  From what I read it shows full sanctification or no sanctification.

 

Example:  " Then He said, 'Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second.' By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. " 

 

I don't think Jesus is a feel good message.  Aarons sons for example offered strange fire to God.  They believed in God but came to him in their own way instead of how the bible states.  They were consumed by the fire of God and I think its safe to say their souls were lost.   

 

 

People grow and mature in their faith. Not everyone is at the same place, spiritually in their walk with God.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

Never ignore anything. I know Whom my faith is ground upon. He is perfectly capable to keep me safe. Thank you, Jesus!

 

Yes, of course, you are safe and secure ... I have NO doubts about it.

 

However, alas, you have made the usual female error, which I have noticed in all Christian forums!

Dis thread is NOT about YOU ... 'tis about other people ... Is it possible for THEM to lose THEIR salvation?

Hello!

 

 

FEMALE ERROR??????????????????????????????

 

No one can lose one's salvation by his faith in Jesus Christ. It is a gift from God!

 

Ephesians 4:30 (NLT)

And do not bring sorrow to God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live. Remember, he has identified you as his own,guaranteeing that you will be saved on the day of redemption.

 

Jude 1:24 (NLT)

Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault.

 

Romans 8:38-39 (NLT)

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. ³⁹ No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

 

I don't know about you, but when the Lord guarantees me something, I can rest in that thing as being MINE!

 

Wouldn't this be cherry picking?  Although it shows that God is able to keep us from falling, in the case of Galatians was he unable?  Or what about the letters to the churches in revelations?  Let us review them.

 

Galatians 3:1-4

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.  I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?  Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain?

 

He is writing them a letter because they took up the view of circumcision.  Obviously they were Christ born as it says "beginning by means of the Spirit" and their current state "Are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"  Showing they arent enduring in the faith.  Look they still believe in Jesus Christ.  They still love him, they probably still show love to their neighbors and do everything else right, except the circumcision thing.  Their faiths are absolutely worthless at this point if they really think being circumcised makes you a man of God.

 

And read any of the letters to the churches in revelations.  They all say to repent and endure and then they will be rewarded

 

example "Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

 

 

All Christians will suffer some loss at reward time, but they will never lose out on heaven. We can suffer shipwreck of our faith by disobedience, but we are still King's kids.

 

All our sins were taken care of at the cross---past, present and future---not just some.

[Guest]

I am going to have to say "NO!"

 

Only one of those verse strikes me as remotely threatening lost of salvation. Most are more descriptive of what a person looks like, who has salvation, and what one looks like who has not attained it.

 

I think the bigger questions are, the ones that needs examination:

 

how do we know if we have salvation, and 

 

what is salvation based upon, and

 

is God's character such that He will give something, and then take it back?